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Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

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Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#51

Post by toomuchtodo »

abbasaamer wrote: post #43
zzalpha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Amazon is a sweatshop. The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. All this is doing is giving people more freedom to burn themselves out at home, while further blurring the lines between work and life and throwing in a 25% pay cut as the cherry on top. It's like the opposite of Google campus life, but with the same goal.

"Amazon is a sweatshop" I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. I work in Alexa and the work environment on my team is pretty awesome. Lots of freedom to try new things, good work life balance, and generally a high level of respect for engineers. I turned down Google to come here and I have no regrets (though not to imply that Google isn't equally awesome).

> I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization.

https://www.google.com/#q=amazon+sweatshop

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#52

Post by zeeveener »

gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

Programmers can suffer from this problem as well as engineers.

The project never fully leaves your mind and often I'll go home and mull over the reasons why things might not be working or how to start another task. No "actual" work gets done, but I'm still working; just as you described.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#53

Post by Kenji »

gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your family or whatever - technically you're still working, your mind is preoccupied, you might not be able to sleep or when you do you dream about the problem.

Oh my gosh, exactly this! When I am working on a theoretical maths problem, there is just no end to the work! On the train home, when I'm eating, when I'm taking a shower, it goes on and on (it's especially bad for maths because it's pure mental gymnastics - not even pen & paper needed unless you have specific calculations). I have to make a conscious effort to stop that - but then I have to clear many 'temporary variables' in my mind (losing time and effort) and the problem remains unsolved for the time being. Plus I cannot work on any other intellectual pursuits in the meantime because my mind is exhausted. It drives me nuts.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#54

Post by toomuchtodo »

andrewguenther wrote: post #40
gtrubetskoy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which way is "working from home" "taking it easy"?

Because working from home is usually light on working.

Your viewpoint, without experience, is toxic to rational discussions regarding remote work (and is ironic, considering your employer).

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#56

Post by pjmorris »

andrewguenther wrote: post #39
pjmorris wrote: post #36

'Amazon is piloting 25% pay cuts'. I wonder if the group that does this will be viewed as lesser, e.g. work on less interesting projects, be less likely to be promoted, than the "40" hour employees.

The pilot is a team-wide thing. You won't have a 30-hour employee on a 40-hour team. 30-hour employees will work with 30-hour employees under a 30-hour manager. I think that will help offset some of this, but it does put a limit on what projects you could work on. For the pilot, anyway. I'm interested to see how this pans out.

I recognize that 'You won't have a 30-hour employee on a 40-hour team'... my point is that, unless they segregate them in another building, probably another company, the pilot teams will interact with the non-pilot teams... and, at some point in the hierarchy, will be managed by 40-hour people.

As jaded as I sound, I do think there's a place for workplace flexibility. What would really tell me the executives are committed to it: Calculate their actual FTE's - average work week hours divided by 40 - and make sure there are at least that many physical FTE's.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#57

Post by jaredsohn »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #4
citizenflynn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my team at Amazon almost every day has only 4/5 engineers at the office because one is taking it easy working from home. Sometimes people take hour lunches and leave after 7 hours. Sometimes they want to finish something and stay later.

In which way is "working from home" "taking it easy"?

It can be quieter, you don't have to deal with office distractions, and if you are an introvert it can be less draining.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#58

Post by vibrato »

pjmorris wrote: post #36

'Amazon is piloting 25% pay cuts'. I wonder if the group that does this will be viewed as lesser, e.g. work on less interesting projects, be less likely to be promoted, than the "40" hour employees.

They are piloting it on internal HR software which I think says a lot.

To me this seems like a purely PR driven move after the lambasting their culture has taken lately.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#59

Post by jerkstate »

freestockoption wrote: post #44

I thought Amazon employees were routinely burned out. At least that's the perception I get from reading the news. Maybe this is to help combat it? What's next? Unlimited PTO? :)

Yes, it seems like this move is to help combat the perception that Amazon employees are routinely burned out.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#60

Post by partiallypro »

I've been told by people that work for Amazon that they can barely keep their teams properly staffed and working over is just a common occurrence, I doubt a 30-hr work week is viable for a company that is more or less (now) a logistics company. Doing so would require higher headcounts, losing money, or both. Not a viable solution, even with the automation push Amazon has.

The only type of companies I could see getting away with this would be pure software companies or agencies. Otherwise, I can't see it fitting many models or personal finances.

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