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Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

theguardian.com

51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#51
post #37

First, let me say that this looks like mistaken identity or worse; and that I myself am an artist, and like most part-time artists I'm very sympathetic to the interests of full-time artists. However, this sentiment is unrealistically simple: "I feel a living artist should be the one who gets to say yea or nay and not be taken to task and forced to go back 40 years in time." The way the art market works, attribution (…

An artist should be free to affirm or deny authorship of an art object whether he actually created it or not. The buyers assume substantial risk when buying unauthenticated artworks.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#53
post #37

First, let me say that this looks like mistaken identity or worse; and that I myself am an artist, and like most part-time artists I'm very sympathetic to the interests of full-time artists. However, this sentiment is unrealistically simple: "I feel a living artist should be the one who gets to say yea or nay and not be taken to task and forced to go back 40 years in time." The way the art market works, attribution (…

An artist should be free to affirm or deny authorship of an art object whether he actually created it or not. The buyers assume substantially risk when buying unauthenticated artworks.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#54
post #19

What if he really had painted it? What duty does he have to authenticate it?

Forget this case for a minute.

Imagine Alice is selling Bob a house. Carol comes along and says, "Don't buy that house. It's infested with termites." This is likely to cause Bob to reconsider his offer, and Alice will be somewhat pissed. If Carol is correct, there's nothing Alice can do, but if Carol is lying, Alice will likely sue for unlawful tortuous interference with business or somesuch, whatever the legal words are.

Now imagine that Alice is selling Bob a Monet painting. Carol says "That painting is fake." If Carol is some internet rando, probably doesn't matter. But if Carol is well known among Monet collectors, then her statement is likely to dissuade potential buyers. Alice will lose lots of money. If Carol is right, end of story, but if Carol is lying, perhaps to spite Alice, then hello lawsuit.

Now, getting closer to the case at hand, imagine Alice is selling Bob a Peter Doig painting. Carol says "That painting is a fake." Same story, if Carol is lying and that depresses the market price, Alice has a case against Carol.

In this particular case, it turns out that "Carol" is actually Peter Doig himself. But that's somewhat irrelevant to the legal framework. Actually, it just means he's considered an expert, and therefore his statements will affect the price. But being an expert doesn't make his statements true.

Of course, with evidence presented, obvious he's not lying.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#55
post #19

What if he really had painted it? What duty does he have to authenticate it?

No such duty has ever existed.

That's what bothers me about this whole thing. I don't see how you can force an artist to affirmatively authenticate a painting no matter how much money is on the line unless he's somehow contractually obligated to do so.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#56
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly that an artist had to pay legal fees to defend himself because he told the truth and someone didn't like it. The ridiculous litigiousness of the whole thing is disconcerting. The last name wasn't even spelled correctly, if an artist doesn't claim a painting, that should be good enough.

He wasn't in prison, the names are different, and he's adamantly denying creating it in the first place. That he got dragged into court and had to pay to prove he didn't create something is absurd. This could happen to anyone who creates things.

The prison part seems like it would be particularly easy to verify, even if there was a man there who had a very similar name.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#57
post #37

First, let me say that this looks like mistaken identity or worse; and that I myself am an artist, and like most part-time artists I'm very sympathetic to the interests of full-time artists. However, this sentiment is unrealistically simple: "I feel a living artist should be the one who gets to say yea or nay and not be taken to task and forced to go back 40 years in time." The way the art market works, attribution (…

Then it's a perverse market where people have ceased to sell objects, and are now just trading financial instruments. I support the right of the author to disclaim the authorship of any work at any time, despite any evidence to the contrary. He should be able to choose whether he wants his name used as a vehicle in a financial transaction. Not whether it will be , because if some insurance company or law firm wants t…

Not forcing the author to endorse is fine, but in this case - assuming he did paint it - he actually lied. I have sympathy for the particular role that is authorship of art, but if it was something else like a car or a house, and the previous seller publicly and falsely claimed there was something wrong with it, losing you a sale, is that not an harm? If the author sells his works in the open market, why should he then have privileges above other sellers?

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such duty has ever existed.

That's what bothers me about this whole thing. I don't see how you can force an artist to affirmatively authenticate a painting no matter how much money is on the line unless he's somehow contractually obligated to do so.

I don't think they were claiming he has to affirmatively authenticate it; the issue at stake is that he actively denied making it.

Re: Artist Peter Doig victorious as court agrees '$10m' painting is not his work

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't in prison, the names are different, and he's adamantly denying creating it in the first place. That he got dragged into court and had to pay to prove he didn't create something is absurd. This could happen to anyone who creates things.

The prison part seems like it would be particularly easy to verify, even if there was a man there who had a very similar name.

It was easily verified but the prosecution insisted he may have changed his name or the prison recorded it wrong for reasons that were never quite explained.

Their arguments were so detached from reality they may as well have been trying to prove that Elvis made the painting.

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