Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

tooling.tips

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#51

Post by WayneBro »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #39
blunte wrote: post #20

Steve Jobs is dead. Can we finally fix this? Or can someone convince me that the behavior we have suffered through for ages has more value than frustration?

You are used to the Windows/Linux concept of a desktop, that's all. Look at it like this: the windows on your desktop are the things you are working on. Usually they will be documents or other kinds of content. In OSX the desktop metaphor works a little different than on Windows. In Windows a window represents an application. In OSX a window (usually) represents a piece of content, e.g. document in Pages. When you mi…

> I'd hate for this behavior to change,

So, how about an option for the rest of us who like the Windows way better?

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#52

Post by rsync »

wodenokoto wrote: post #49
rsync wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and not even that ... it changes direction every time you use it and it even very slightly reorders things in a way I still can't predict. (see my other comment above)

You are right. It reassess the order of windows when you change application. And here I just thought I was bad at keeping track of my windows. Another thing I noticed just now is you can browse to no-window-selected using cmd+` As far as I can tell, the logic is the following, with numbers representing order of creation, with 0 being no window: [3,2,1,0] If you switch app with window 3 selected, the order is maintain…

The amazing thing is, there is an entire company (Apple Computer) full of thousands of people that have to use this every single day ... what the fuck ?

How do they manage to not fix this ? How do they live/cope with this ?

One theory is that there are no power users at apple computer - just a bunch of people mouse-mouse-mousing around their computer all day, every day. I think that's unlikely.

OSX power users that actually work at apple ... why don't you get this fixed ? I live with this pain because I have no way to do anything about it ... why do you live with this pain ?

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#53

Post by Aaargh20318 »

WayneBro wrote: post #51
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are used to the Windows/Linux concept of a desktop, that's all. Look at it like this: the windows on your desktop are the things you are working on. Usually they will be documents or other kinds of content. In OSX the desktop metaphor works a little different than on Windows. In Windows a window represents an application. In OSX a window (usually) represents a piece of content, e.g. document in Pages. When you mi…

> I'd hate for this behavior to change, So, how about an option for the rest of us who like the Windows way better?

You can switch to Windows.

There should not be an option, that would almost be worse. If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess. Options just mean the developer is too afraid to make a choice.

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#55

Post by WayneBro »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #53
WayneBro wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd hate for this behavior to change, So, how about an option for the rest of us who like the Windows way better?

You can switch to Windows. There should not be an option, that would almost be worse. If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess. Options just mean the developer is too afraid to make a choice.

I have to use both.

There should be an option, for the simple reason that I and many, many others like me want one.

And I can also use trite phrases to prove my point: One size does not fit all.

> If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess.

No, they don't. It means there's an option to change something to the way the user wants it to be.

> Options just mean the developer is too afraid to make a choice.

No, it doesn't. Options mean that the developer lives in reality. The reality again is: One size does not fit all.

Furthermore, the numerous third party tools that actually add this option haven't made OS X fall apart or stop operating. It doesn't stop me from doing one single thing. It changes the one behavior that I wanted changed. The only problem with third party tools is that they're third party and they don't have all the API access that Apple has. So empirically, you're wrong.

Your sense of aesthetic is also way off if you think OS X has got window management right. Numerous hard core Mac fans disagree with you on that one and everybody else in the world using Windows likes it just the way it is. I think the only facet of the Mac OS that is decried even more than the bad window management is the Finder.

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#56

Post by WayneBro »

thought_alarm wrote: post #23

> You might come across a situation, where you want to switch to an application or open a new instance of it. You press (Command ⌘ + Tab) combination. and you don’t get your window, just the title in the menu bar! If you're having that problem then you're not using the Minimize command correctly. Never use Minimize when you intend to switch between apps. You only use Minimize when you explicitly do not want to see a…

Hiding a window doesn't mean I never want to switch back to it again. And, your complex situation for usage of Minimize isn't helping here. It actually proves the opposite point - Apple implemented the Minimize command incorrectly.

The bad window management isn't limited to the Minimize command though. Open any window from the menu-bar and you'll never be able to switch to it with the keyboard.

Try it out: Open "About this Mac" from the apple menu. Now switch to some other application (with the keyboard). Now try to switch back to "About this Mac" with your keyboard.

You can't.

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#58

Post by thomasruns »

wodenokoto wrote: post #30
jedmeyers wrote: post #19

[Command + `] - a very useful shortcut in OS X for switching between windows of the same application.

My big grief with that is that it implements a different ordering logic than cmd+tab does. cmd+tab orders by last active application, while cmd+` orders by last window created.

Which is bad enough by itself, but if you are using multiple monitors/workspace CMD+` will only switch between windows of that application that are on the same workspace.

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#59

Post by Aaargh20318 »

WayneBro wrote: post #55
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can switch to Windows. There should not be an option, that would almost be worse. If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess. Options just mean the developer is too afraid to make a choice.

I have to use both. There should be an option, for the simple reason that I and many, many others like me want one. And I can also use trite phrases to prove my point: One size does not fit all. > If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess. No, they don't. It means there's an option to change something to the way the user wants it to be. > Options just mean the dev…

> And I can also use trite phrases to prove my point: One size does not fit all.

That doesn't matter. Conceptual integrity is more important than you having to relearn some habits.

> No, they don't. It means there's an option to change something to the way the user wants it to be.

No, it means breaking the conceptual integrity of the desktop as it implemented on OS X. Once you start mixing things up ,that's when it gets confusing. Unlearn your Windows habits.

Re: Mac OS X: Sane way to switch between windows

#60

Post by WayneBro »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #59
WayneBro wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to use both. There should be an option, for the simple reason that I and many, many others like me want one. And I can also use trite phrases to prove my point: One size does not fit all. > If you start messing with the fundamental concept of how the desktop works things become a mess. No, they don't. It means there's an option to change something to the way the user wants it to be. > Options just mean the dev…

> And I can also use trite phrases to prove my point: One size does not fit all. That doesn't matter. Conceptual integrity is more important than you having to relearn some habits. > No, they don't. It means there's an option to change something to the way the user wants it to be. No, it means breaking the conceptual integrity of the desktop as it implemented on OS X. Once you start mixing things up ,that's when it g…

> That doesn't matter.

Yes, it does.

> Conceptual integrity is more important than you having to relearn some habits.

It's not about habits at all. I haven't made that argument once, you're assuming that is the case here. Stop doing that. It's a really, really weak argument and an obvious straw-man.

Conceptual integrity is important, but OS X doesn't have any conceptual integrity in the area of window management. It's absolutely and totally illogical.

> Unlearn your Windows habits.

There is no habit here. Windows window management is logical, consistent and generally preferred by most people over the way OS X does things.

You need to learn how to think about things more logically.

Post reply on HN