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“Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

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Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#51

Post by ekimekim »

faide wrote: post #44
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

People have gotten used to it in the console market, but to PC gamers the idea of being locked out of games based on your hardware is new.

This just goes to show why it's important to take a stand now, before we internalise this new, worse state of affairs and stop being outraged.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#52

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

faide wrote: post #44
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

Oculus leadership have been adamantly vocal since the Kickstarter days that they would never inhibit interoperability with competing HMDs.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#53

Post by mklim »

faide wrote: post #44
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

VR headsets aren't platforms in their own right with their own operating systems like consoles are, they're hardware peripherals. It would be like a company refusing to launch their game unless it detected the "right" controller plugged in to the computer. All of the game's code is being executed by the PC itself--that's why a shim like this was almost instantly thrown up to allow Oculus Store games to be played on the Vive, all they needed to do was translate the I/O from the Vive to the protocol that the game was expecting from a Rift. It's along the same lines as x360ce, a wrapper that lets you use any gamepad you want with games that only have official support for Xbox Controllers.

There are real differences in the Rift/Vive systems right now in terms of what they're capable of (Vive has touch controllers, Rift won't get them until a few months down the road), but hardcoding a check into your DRM that makes sure that you're using the correctly branded headset is just asinine. There's no real differences between the headsets themselves that justify it, it's just artificially trying to cut out competition.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#54

Post by nilkn »

onewaystreet wrote: post #46
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

> Especially not with companies like Valve doing the complete opposite giving money to third party devs with no exclusivity deals whatsoever. Valve forces devs that take their money to have their game on Steam until they have paid back the loan. That's not exclusivity but it's also not no-strings. Valve has an agenda just like Oculus.

But that's considerably more reasonable than asking that the developer completely lock out 50% (or more) of their potential customer base.

And it's not quite a loan. It's prepaid Steam revenue.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#55

Post by serge2k »

nilkn wrote: post #50
faide wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

Many people have batted many eyes about that. Those people typically are big fans of PC gaming, which happens to be the audience that Oculus is targeting. So Oculus is targeting the demographic amongst gamers which is the most opposed to exclusives. By the way, Valve is supplying quite a bit of funding to VR developers as well but is somehow managing to do it without requiring exclusivity. At the very least, Oculus c…

> but is somehow managing to do it without requiring exclusivity. At the very least, Oculus could require store exclusivity but not hardware exclusivity.

Their massive share of teh PC gaming market via steam gives them more freedom.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#56

Post by faide »

pavanky wrote: post #49
faide wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

Because rift is not a freaking console. It is just a new way to display a game that is running on a PC.

It's hardly a peripheral though. VR games are incompatible with traditional displays, and the development requirements are quite a bit more strict (low latency, high framerate).

It's quite a stretch to say that VR is "just a new way to display a game," in my opinion.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#57

Post by mklim »

faide wrote: post #56
pavanky wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because rift is not a freaking console. It is just a new way to display a game that is running on a PC.

It's hardly a peripheral though. VR games are incompatible with traditional displays, and the development requirements are quite a bit more strict (low latency, high framerate). It's quite a stretch to say that VR is "just a new way to display a game," in my opinion.

It's an extremely complicated peripheral, but it's still a peripheral. It's a monitor with an intricate tracking system that allows it to tell the PC powering it its exact location and orientation within a limited area. Playing a VR game is nothing like playing a game on a 3D monitor, it feels like you've been transported to another dimension, but the hardware itself isn't doing anything to execute the game and is still "just" a peripheral like a keyboard, monitor, or gamepad. It's just being fed what it should display by the PC and feeding the PC back information about its location and orientation. That's why Oculus initially needed to put a hardware check into their DRM to block shims like this, there's no real technical reason you can't use one in place of the other once you translate its I/O.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#58

Post by caconym_ »

faide wrote: post #44
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

All other things being equal, hardware exclusivity is terrible for consumers. Oculus is free to do whatever they want, "fair" or not, and consumers are free to vote with their wallets in return.

I think people have been particularly vocal here because a) the exclusivity ship sailed for consoles decades ago while the VR market is fresh, b) because the market for 1st-gen VR is mostly early adopters who pay attention to these things and have strong opinions, and c) because Oculus have seemingly been saying one thing and doing another.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#59

Post by FeepingCreature »

egeozcan wrote: post #39
Klathmon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never got the quest for punishment for actions like this. They did something bad, the community reacted negatively. If they fix the problem, rewarding them is going to make sure it sticks around. Continuing to "punish" them for something they fixed only sends the message that the fix was pointless and that it would have been better to ignore the problem like so many other companies (including Facebook themselves) d…

What do you think about these cases I made up: "I am sorry officer, I realized that you were coming after me to detain me for stealing. There's no need! I'll just put these back." "I've been bullying all other kids since years. I've realized that's why nobody wants me as their friend. I will cease the bullying immediately and I'm sure they'll invite me to the big party tomorrow."

Let's compromise.

I hope that Oculus still gets some shit for attempting to lockdown their ecosystem. But less so than before this.

Re: “Oculus removed the headset check from the DRM in Oculus Runtime 1.5”

#60

Post by sp332 »

faide wrote: post #44
gthtjtkt wrote: post #11

They deserved the backlash for implementing it, and I hope the Rift continues to suffer now that people know Facebook's true intentions. Not to mention how poorly they treated early supporters after the buyout, e.g. stocking Rifts on retail shelves before they'd fulfilled orders for all backers, then telling backers who complained to get a refund and go buy one from a store... They're only doing the "right" thing bec…

I don't understand the exclusivity outrage. It seems entirely fair to me for a platform holder to expect something in return for funding development of a game. Consoles have had exclusives since time immemorial and no one seems to bat an eye when it happens. What makes this case special?

People complain about console exclusives all the time. It's kind of receded into the noise floor, but they're still there.
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