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The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
51–60 of 105 posts
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
The implication is that the rest of the team felt comfortable enough in that environment that they could change the channel without even having to ask, while OP was loudly ridiculed for wanting to change the channel in a more polite way. The rest of the team felt comfortable with the team dynamic in a way that OP did not, and by ridiculing her, they made it clear that her desires were less important than theirs, thus…
Yep, it has more to do with team dynamics and authority levels than anything related to sexism. It's a simple fact that usually in groups the majority rules. The majority wanted to watch baseball, not Friends.
Sure, but you can be a majority that's a tyranny, or a majority that occasionally is more accommodating.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#53To summarize: Most of the team wants to watch progam A; watching program A during dinner is an established team ritual; author wants to change channel to program B, which is "met with incredulity and laughter". Some time later, program B is running; team members come in and want to change the channel to program A. And that latter event is the most alienating during her time at Microsoft. Wat. It gets better: Because…
The implication is that the rest of the team felt comfortable enough in that environment that they could change the channel without even having to ask, while OP was loudly ridiculed for wanting to change the channel in a more polite way. The rest of the team felt comfortable with the team dynamic in a way that OP did not, and by ridiculing her, they made it clear that her desires were less important than theirs, thus…
I think what's more unsettling to me about that part of her story is that there was only One Right Answer: the sports game. I'm accustomed to team dynamics with aggressively asserted opinions; but even within the group, those opinions generally differed by substance or degree. Faced with this kind of consensus, I'd feel alienated too; because I know this behaviour would be integral to my daily work interactions with those people . . .
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#54Does it matter at all if she's a female? She is just a minority in terms of preferences. If a male wanted to watch, say, football while the rest of the crowd settled on a baseball, things would not have been any different.
In the aircon control wars majority always wins, so why would it be different with a TV?
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought the same on first reading. But now I think the author felt the first more strongly because it made her feel "not even worth consideration" rather than "merely" objectified, which presumably is something she might have more familiarity/ability to cope with.
Still nothing to do with gender.
That is not the point. She is complaining that they were 5 to 10 person watching a TV show, another guy comes in and wants to change the channel, not even considering asking the other people why they watched something different that day. Not about gender, not about sports, just shows total social incompetence.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#56Christ there's some ugly comments down the bottom of this thread. I always thought Hacker News was a bit more professional than reddit, now it seems the only difference is the comments calling her a "feminist", "c--t", "retard" are downvoted below threshold here.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#57Why is it so difficult to have the empathy to say: ok every n'th day we switch to program B for her? Because too many mens clubs lack empathy and respect. It's that dead simple. (I am male).
nothing to do with "mens clubs," if you were a guy who didn't like baseball I wouldn't be surprised if these guys treated you the same way. Source: That was me.
You might be right. But I argue that this is often highly more significant in nmen-1women then nmen-1men. Havn't there been studies here in hackernews or cited by Cherly Sandbergs book to prove this?!
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have misrepresented the case, although I do agree that it's not overtly a male/female thing. People are in a shared TV-viewing area. There is something being shown on TV. New person enters and decides to change the channel without asking. This is the action of a total dickhead. I don't care what the established ritual is. If a group of people are clearly watching something else (and they must be, because here the…
But the story doesn't tell us that anyone was actually watching Friends at the moment.
You know what, the story also doesn't tell us that nobody was on fire at the moment.
When you walk into a shared TV viewing area with people in it, and there is something being shown on TV, even if it looks like nobody is looking at the screen at that moment, you should still ask before changing channel. Social fact. If it looks like nobody is watching it, you can soften it a little by framing the question as "Is anyone watching this, or can I change channel?"
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have misrepresented the case, although I do agree that it's not overtly a male/female thing. People are in a shared TV-viewing area. There is something being shown on TV. New person enters and decides to change the channel without asking. This is the action of a total dickhead. I don't care what the established ritual is. If a group of people are clearly watching something else (and they must be, because here the…
You had a great point until you brought in psychiatric diagnoses. I think this is an example of the conjunction fallacy, or The Linda Problem. Bob walks in and changes the channel even though other people are watching. Is Bob an asshole, or is Bob and asshole and has Asperger's?
Your point is still great, and IT IS a sociopathic thing to do, they are immediately asserting dominance and challenging anyone to question it.
That doesn't mean they are going to kill you, it means they understand how social hierarchies work and are moving up the ladder.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have misrepresented the case, although I do agree that it's not overtly a male/female thing. People are in a shared TV-viewing area. There is something being shown on TV. New person enters and decides to change the channel without asking. This is the action of a total dickhead. I don't care what the established ritual is. If a group of people are clearly watching something else (and they must be, because here the…
You had a great point until you brought in psychiatric diagnoses. I think this is an example of the conjunction fallacy, or The Linda Problem. Bob walks in and changes the channel even though other people are watching. Is Bob an asshole, or is Bob and asshole and has Asperger's?
Indeed.
For those unfamiliar with the Linda problem, Daniel Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow explains it.
There are far more assholes than there are people with Asperger's. Consequently Bob is probably an asshole, plain and simple.