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Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

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Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#51

Post by cm2187 »

cmurf wrote: post #48
CamperBob2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this debacle can be blamed on Ballmer, and certainly not on Gates. In fact, I have to wonder if the reason why Ballmer was finally handed his walking papers by the board was that he was unwilling to greenlight these frog-marched upgrades to Windows 10. Somebody very powerful at Microsoft, or perhaps elsewhere, wants everybody to accept this free update way, way too badly, and it's not clear why.

They're getting their asses handed to them by malware. They have a huge attack surface of users on various versions of Windows. Forced upgrades reduces that attack surface of older versions of Windows. That's all I can think of. In open source software where this is more transparent, computer security is hard. Backporting fixes is harder, and expensive, and has its own risks. Microsoft can't be immune to the same pro…

I don't believe a single second that Microsoft is adopting this hard line for security considerations. They want to monetize their users. They want them to watch their in-OS ads, they want to accumulate data on people, they want them to go to bing for search, etc.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#52

Post by Mithaldu »

Joeri wrote: post #46
metaphor wrote: post #11

There's a sense of irony seeing this post today when just last night, as my girlfriend and I were planning a weekend trip, I asked her what OS she was using (not being familiar with anything beyond Win7), to which she responded Win8. I then asked if she planned to upgrade to Win10, noting a post I had read about MS charging for the upgrade after a certain date, to which she responded no...then a minute or two later,…

There was a user action to install it, but it's pretty sneaky. MS changed the behavior of the upgrade question dialog that if you close it with x it will start the download and then install when ready. Your girlfriend must have clicked the x some time prior to the sudden upgrade. Even my tech-savvy coworker who didn't want to upgrade got caught out by this. Anyway, you can still roll back, and then install never10.

Edit: After some thinking: Yes, i agree this is a dark pattern and MS needs to be held accountable to it accordingly. My only disagreement with the current direction of discourse is that people are not saying "MS manipulated me into an update", which is the truth, but "Windows updated on its own and there was nothing anyone could do", which isn't.

--

They didn't change it, it was always that way. People only realized just now that it does that.

Also, please do take a look at the window people X out of and then are surprised about: http://i.imgur.com/aWFX0vc.png It states clearly that it is going to happen, and when it is going happen, and how to cancel it. The only way a user would be surprised about that is if they didn't read the message in the first place.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#53

Post by cm2187 »

13of40 wrote: post #13
curiousgal wrote: post #2

As per the post[0], the upgrade did not crash the computer BUT it did download 6Gb of data over satellite-internet which can be quite expensive. OP is having an AMA[1]. 0. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i... 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4mirin/i_am_the_accid...

I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.

I agree that Apple is becoming hostile to its users. iOS has now a level of nagging for Apple services which is similar to the cheapest PCs full of crapware. Please us Apple music. Please use Apple Pay. Please use iCloud. etc. You have to click and confirm you don't want any of that shit pretty much at every OS update. And their "do you want to update now or do you want to update today" is also unacceptable.

I just don't see how that makes it OK for microsoft to do the same.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#54

Post by cm2187 »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #17
13of40 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.

The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.

You can't say no. It's like Windows 10 upgrade. Do you want to upgrade now or do you want to upgrade today. I don't call that leaving the option to say no.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#56

Post by cm2187 »

orbitur wrote: post #42
ksk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. Yeah, and then it asks again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.. and again....

That's when you upgrade. There's no reason to stay on an older iOS.

Except when the upgrades come with more nagging for Apple services.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#57

Post by yuhong »

cm2187 wrote: post #51
cmurf wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're getting their asses handed to them by malware. They have a huge attack surface of users on various versions of Windows. Forced upgrades reduces that attack surface of older versions of Windows. That's all I can think of. In open source software where this is more transparent, computer security is hard. Backporting fixes is harder, and expensive, and has its own risks. Microsoft can't be immune to the same pro…

I don't believe a single second that Microsoft is adopting this hard line for security considerations. They want to monetize their users. They want them to watch their in-OS ads, they want to accumulate data on people, they want them to go to bing for search, etc.

I think the most important one here is the Windows Store.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#58

Post by yuhong »

mattkevan wrote: post #49

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as p…

Note that businesses will typically use Win10 Enterprise, often with WSUS.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#59

Post by cm2187 »

pizzachef2 wrote: post #50
reitanqild wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to say, but yes, also on my professional edition I think. (A "recommended apps" ad in the start menu.)

You can turn those off.

Or you can have no appetite to play whack-a-mole with microsoft's privacy settings and refuse to upgrade.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#60

Post by cm2187 »

yuhong wrote: post #57
cm2187 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe a single second that Microsoft is adopting this hard line for security considerations. They want to monetize their users. They want them to watch their in-OS ads, they want to accumulate data on people, they want them to go to bing for search, etc.

I think the most important one here is the Windows Store.

I forgot it and completely agree, they want a cut of anything installed on the machine. And following this logic I wouldn't be surprised if they would make it increasingly difficult to install any non store app. Requiring them to be signed first, then signed by them against a fee, then simply not allowed like iOS does.

Which is why not having the option to turn down upgrade after having been upgraded to windows 10 is problematic.

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