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Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

electrek.co

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Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#51

Post by barney54 »

rpgmaker wrote: post #49
larsiusprime wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is also tiny and SOVEREIGN. Any similarly inclined USA state must answer to the other 49.

How so? What stops any state in the US from doing similar things? Genuine question. California for example routinely establishes new and stricter (compared to other US states) environmental rules governing emissions and whatnot. Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states.

The Clean Air Act allows the federal government to give CA the ability to set alternative standards for car emission controls, but it isn't likely it allows CA to ban all fueled vehicles.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#52

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

DasIch wrote: post #24
Shivetya wrote: post #8

what are they going to do between then and now to get older vehicles out of service? are there emissions tests in Norway? Do they have a cut off date, as in the car is beyond a certain age it is not tested? Do they treat trucks and such the same? I think its an interesting idea and it might work depending on how fast fuel cell and battery technology advances. I have never been a believer of the all battery solution a…

There is no need for the government to set up a system to make sure older vehicles are taken out of service. You just use a combination of taxes and subsidies. You tax gas, vehicles based on their emissions or both to make old cars unaffordable, so people will take them out of service. On the other hand you make electric cars more affordable and usable through subsidies on electric cars and infrastructure for them. I…

They should probably skip subsidies though.

Taxing emissions makes sense because emissions are a direct externality. But when you subsidies replacements you are essentially betting on the most efficient solution, not at all certain it would be the best, you also introduce new externalities for people to profit on unfairly.

I'm guessing it would be much more effective to tax emissions, do so aggressively, and then just pass back the money directly as a public dividend. This way the market has full freedom to pick a way forward, any way.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#55

Post by jschwartzi »

vpeters25 wrote: post #32
moonfern wrote: post #6

It's not that petrol cars will be forbidden but buying a new non zero emission car in 2025 will be financially not beneficial, according to Norwegian press. 99% of the electricity in Norway comes from hydro power plants, it's a huge exporter of gas and oil and it's rich. That makes it easier to make such a progressive decision but congrats for setting the first deadline.

This sounds like a more balanced approach than the linked article which claims an outright ban on oil-based vehicles. I think banning any technology is a bad idea. Imho, the problem with climate change is not the burning of oil or carbon, but the emissions from doing it.

Why can't we ban fuel-burning cars? They have a more direct impact on the environment than just climate.

I live next to a busy road and I frequently have to sweep noxious dust off my balcony. Not to mention that the sky at sunset is not naturally orange, but is tinted by the haze.

We banned CFCs because they were removing the UV filter from our atmosphere, so there is precedent, and decades later nobody misses them.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#56

Post by larsiusprime »

rpgmaker wrote: post #49
larsiusprime wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is also tiny and SOVEREIGN. Any similarly inclined USA state must answer to the other 49.

How so? What stops any state in the US from doing similar things? Genuine question. California for example routinely establishes new and stricter (compared to other US states) environmental rules governing emissions and whatnot. Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states.

> Legalizing pot is similarly fairly out of the mainstream and it is being done independently by several states.

And for a while those states were subject to ongoing raids from the federal government. The Obama administration has held off, but the legal framework that justifies said raids is very much in place. If opinions blow back the other way they could resume any time.

When you're not sovereign, then your sovereign can tell you what you can and can't do. If you're mostly on their side, it's not a problem, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way forever.

Say a conservative supreme court comes to power and says, "Yeah, pot is totally banned and states can't opt out of it." End of discussion.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#58

Post by adamnemecek »

larsiusprime wrote: post #50
adamnemecek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you measure ideological diversity? Also how do different parts of the US have different needs?

I don't mean to offend, but is this a serious question? Ideological diversity can be measured by simply conducting public opinion polls on a range of public policy issues (social, economic, foreign, domestic, etc etc). This is a pretty well established science. Add in the distribution of said opinions -- a lot of different opinions in about the same mix everywhere is much different from large concentrated enclaves in…

I feel like you are pulling the discussion in an unrelated direction.

You seem to be implying that the US is the only place with diversity and that that somehow is an excuse for the US not having social security measures common in other countries.

Also what is the range of opinions in the US and how does it compare with the range of opinions in Norway?

> THEN you get into the differing needs of the peoples themselves which is affected by a million different variables. Education levels. Income levels. Health. Languages spoken in different regions. Populations with many recent immigrants have differing legal and social needs from populations of ninth generation native-born citizens. And on and on and on.

But are these requirements really that fundamentally different?

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#59

Post by SCAQTony »

Norway's population is less than half the size of L.A. County. (5.1-million rounded up) A very ambitious and commendable project but easily accomplished in a country with such a low population. Ford a alone makes almost 2.5-million cars a year.

"...At the end of 2014, 2.5 million passenger cars were registered in Norway. This corresponded to 491 passenger cars per 1,000 inhabitants..."

https://www.ssb.no/en/transport-og-reiseliv/statistikker/bil...

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