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Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

nextcloud.com

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Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#51

Post by CaptSpify »

medlazik wrote: post #15

> You should have full control over your data. We help you achieve that: a safe home for all your data. Secure, under your control and developed in an open, transparent and trustworthy way. We are Nextcloud. Why are we not in full control over our data with ownCloud anymore? What really changed that made the founder and top contributors leave ownCloud?

> What really changed that made the founder and top contributors leave ownCloud?

I didn't hear about this. Anyone have the scoop on it?

EDIT: NVM, found other links/discussion in this thread

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#52

Post by gregmac »

distances wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to hear a bit more background for this forking. What does Nextcloud try to achieve that was not possible within the ownCloud project? Was this a clash of personalities as one of the ownCloud founders is among those jumping the ship?

There's some telling comments in a thread on their forums[1]:

> So, the main thing we wanted is a sustainable company. A company that doesn't go away soon, that isn't forced by a bad funding situation to make stupid decisions, or to limit itself and not work with partners as much as possible.

> A similar fork? Well, if Frank and the rest of the engineers lose trust in Nextcloud, we won't have to fork as this time, we will make sure the company won't fully control trademark and code. No more CLA. Trademark in a foundation. So this is the first and last time a fork happens

[1] https://help.nextcloud.com/t/will-nextcloud-stay/90/4

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#53

Post by baldfat »

onli wrote: post #45
baldfat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 2 local copies with local monthly backup for a year and an off site backup (CrashPlan) is the secret. CrashPlan can go back in time for issues like this. As a Systems Librarian I did the daily (31 days worth), weekly (52 weeks worth), monthly (48 months worth) back ups with 131 tapes was a pain but it always paid off. I just had three machines and needed to go to my tapes once a day.

That sounds like a lot. Simple because it sounds also interesting: Why did you have to use your tapes each day? Unreliable filesystem?

It was a library with 500,000 items being used all the time. I had Librarians who were adding and purging our collection everyday full time and students and faculty checking in and out books etc. all the times.

Insider information all the Library Management Systems are totally broken and garbage (Open Source Evergreen is doing things better). I was required to reboot my Windows Server (Purchased before I was hired) everyday. I was told this was totally acceptable. The Oracle DB was solid but the rest of the stack was total and complete garbage that cost over $125,000 and service contracts of $30,000.

Edit: Off Site aka IT Office Fireproof Case was my monthly and previous weeks. Once a week I walked them over. In the library in a fire case were the daily, and the last week. Tape was it was 2007.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#54

Post by mhurron »

stp-ip wrote: post #49
mhurron wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they when they were (apparently) 90% of OwnCloud in the first place. What stopped them being open in the first place?

They were 90% of the top contributors. The company had a lot more sales people. The devs don't control decisions of the company. Only the code and that's why I assume there was this fork.

Presumably they did control the company when they started. I don't know of a time when this complaint wasn't leveled against OwnCloud.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#55

Post by hn234234 »

Having contributed a tiny bit to ownCloud, I enjoyed working with the people that now left to start Nextcloud. I think they were the more technical minded people on the team at ownCloud, compared to the sales persons of which there seem to be an awful lot.

Good luck!

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#56

Post by stp-ip »

mhurron wrote: post #54
stp-ip wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were 90% of the top contributors. The company had a lot more sales people. The devs don't control decisions of the company. Only the code and that's why I assume there was this fork.

Presumably they did control the company when they started. I don't know of a time when this complaint wasn't leveled against OwnCloud.

Control can be taken and views/visions can be different. That's the great thing about open source. The community or even other participants can fork and continue their own vision. Projects shouldn't make a habit out of it so.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#57

Post by api »

mseebach wrote: post #33
alexggordon wrote: post #29

Let me tell you an anecdote about Owncloud. Once upon a time, I hosted an Owncloud instance for my family. I had a raid 5 system setup on an old Xserve with around 10 TB of usable space. I was really into learning about encryption at the time, so I figured it would be cool to encrypt all my families files on the server. I made sure that all my family members were properly educated about not forgetting their password,…

I don't mean to belittle the severity of the bug you encountered -- but the root-cause of your problem was a lack of a backup. A large number of issues, some of them software bugs, many of them not, could lead to data loss. It that vein, too, your RAID-5 system is/was a disaster waiting to happen, especially when you don't have a backup: http://www.zdnet.com/article/raidfail-dont-use-raid-5-on-sma...

"You're holding it wrong."

He did have a backup. Having it also be mysteriously borked certainly violates the principle of least surprise.

That's a bug like Fukushima is an industrial accident.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#58

Post by vox_mollis »

medlazik wrote: post #15

> You should have full control over your data. We help you achieve that: a safe home for all your data. Secure, under your control and developed in an open, transparent and trustworthy way. We are Nextcloud. Why are we not in full control over our data with ownCloud anymore? What really changed that made the founder and top contributors leave ownCloud?

Their refusal to discuss reasons may indicate that a certain entity received a NSL or AWA+Gag to backdoor, and certain someones prefer to take their work to another entity not covered by said order.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#60

Post by mseebach »

api wrote: post #57
mseebach wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to belittle the severity of the bug you encountered -- but the root-cause of your problem was a lack of a backup. A large number of issues, some of them software bugs, many of them not, could lead to data loss. It that vein, too, your RAID-5 system is/was a disaster waiting to happen, especially when you don't have a backup: http://www.zdnet.com/article/raidfail-dont-use-raid-5-on-sma...

"You're holding it wrong." He did have a backup. Having it also be mysteriously borked certainly violates the principle of least surprise. That's a bug like Fukushima is an industrial accident.

Backups are hard and you absolutely need to do them right, otherwise they're pointless.

The reason you need backups is exactly that you can't trust other people (or yourself) not to epically fuck things up. No matter how unambiguously totally someone else's fault it is, if your data is gone, it's gone.

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