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Could anybody explain why this comment by "internaut" was downvoted so heavily? I found internaut's comment to be insightful, well-conceived and on-topic. What's wrong with this comment? EDIT: Moreover, who downvoted me so quickly for asking this question? This happened almost immediately after I posted this. Are there some nasty bots at place here?
You know, I'm wondering: could part of Dijkstra's reputed arrogance be due to a cultural difference? I'm Dutch, and bluntly calling out flaws in each other's work is not considered all that rude over here; it's almost the opposite: not calling someone out on their flaws implies we either consider them a lost cause or not worth the hassle of educating. I almost got fired from a teaching position in Sweden because I to…
Autistic persons are a bit like that too. They have a very simple optimization scheme, so pointing at suboptimal things directly is seen as a gift when most people will have a broad view on being told, shame, disrespect etc etc.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always liked the Dutch for this reason. If it isn't possible to work with somebody while disagreeing with them, then you're the problem. If you spend long enough talking to anybody you'll eventually come across disagreements. Many people take disagreements too personally. I was just yesterday talking to a paramedic. I mentioned to him the article I saw on HN about medical error being the 3rd highest cause of dea…
I don't know what your friend said, but the "errors are #3 killer" is a twisted fact. It comes from assigning "error" at the cause of death of every injury or illness that might have been non-fatal if every perfect test, advance in practice, technology, and mode of care were applied. It isn't a measure of how many otherwise healthy people were killed by errors that introduced new complications. One of highlighted exa…
The medical profession, much like the teaching profession has a nasty habit of victim blaming if things go wrong when it can get away with it. They need humbling because they are too confident. They are highly resistant to this because it diminishes their status and few people enjoy a loss of confidence even if introspection is required for improvement. Computer people tend to take this for granted because we're in a feedback loop with the compiler that tells us constantly when we're in the wrong. That we're fucking idiots all the time isn't news to us. It is news to some other professions that don't have such a tight feedback loop between success and failure.
It is true for example that people don't take their medicine on a timely basis but frustration of dealing with people has bled into other areas and that is unhealthy.
Could anybody explain why this comment by "internaut" was downvoted so heavily? I found internaut's comment to be insightful, well-conceived and on-topic. What's wrong with this comment? EDIT: Moreover, who downvoted me so quickly for asking this question? This happened almost immediately after I posted this. Are there some nasty bots at place here?
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html search for 'downvoted'.
> Please resist commenting about being downvoted.
... does not explain anything here.
1. This guideline does not explain the downvote of internaut's comment.
2. This guideline does not explain the downvote of my initial comment, where I complained about another person being downvoted, not about myself being downvoted (which I wasn't at that point in time).
3. This guideline does not explain the situation after my EDIT. Although it violated that guideline, it did not receive heavy downvotes, but received multiple upvotes instead.
You know, I'm wondering: could part of Dijkstra's reputed arrogance be due to a cultural difference? I'm Dutch, and bluntly calling out flaws in each other's work is not considered all that rude over here; it's almost the opposite: not calling someone out on their flaws implies we either consider them a lost cause or not worth the hassle of educating. I almost got fired from a teaching position in Sweden because I to…
> I'm Dutch, and bluntly calling out flaws in each other's work is not considered all that rude over here; quote: “Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California.” – Edsger Dijkstra Backus, on the other hand, is a genuinely lovely man. If you haven't read/seen his interview with CHM [1], then I urge you to do so. (Pay attention to his closing remarks!) [1]: htt…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea 'Truths as hard as fists', is one way I've seen it put in another language (sortof). > which could only have originated in California Flattery will get you anywhere. UTexas, in this case ...
>Reason is always a kind of brute force; those who appeal to the head rather than the heart, however pallid and polite, are necessarily men of violence. We speak of ‘touching’ a man’s heart, but we can do nothing to his head but hit it. G. K. Chesterton
Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html search for 'downvoted'.
I don't know what to make of this. This hint is not useful at all. The guideline in question ... > Please resist commenting about being downvoted. ... does not explain anything here. 1. This guideline does not explain the downvote of internaut's comment. 2. This guideline does not explain the downvote of my initial comment, where I complained about another person being downvoted, not about myself being downvoted (whi…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html search for 'downvoted'.
I don't know what to make of this. This hint is not useful at all. The guideline in question ... > Please resist commenting about being downvoted. ... does not explain anything here. 1. This guideline does not explain the downvote of internaut's comment. 2. This guideline does not explain the downvote of my initial comment, where I complained about another person being downvoted, not about myself being downvoted (whi…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always liked the Dutch for this reason. If it isn't possible to work with somebody while disagreeing with them, then you're the problem. If you spend long enough talking to anybody you'll eventually come across disagreements. Many people take disagreements too personally. I was just yesterday talking to a paramedic. I mentioned to him the article I saw on HN about medical error being the 3rd highest cause of dea…
I don't know what your friend said, but the "errors are #3 killer" is a twisted fact. It comes from assigning "error" at the cause of death of every injury or illness that might have been non-fatal if every perfect test, advance in practice, technology, and mode of care were applied. It isn't a measure of how many otherwise healthy people were killed by errors that introduced new complications. One of highlighted exa…
Failing to tell a patient that strenuous exercise might be fatal sounds like an error to me!
As it happens, my maternal grandmother was killed by a medical error (before I was born). She went in for some kind of routine surgery and didn't make it. Decades later, when the doctor involved died, among his effects were found a letter he had written to another doctor, explaining that he had made a stupid mistake that killed her. (I don't know any more details.)
Does that mean I believe the "#3 killer" claim? Not necessarily. But I'd bet that the problem is worse than most medical professionals would expect, and that there remains considerable room for improvement.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The title "This guy’s arrogance takes your breath away" is taken directly from Backus's own description of this collection of letters. I've changed the title to make clearer that it is a direct quotation. Unfortunately, the Library of Congress does not allow scanners without prior approval, so this was the only way I could make my own copies. It did not help that all these letters were written or typed on very thin m…
Thanks for making these letter public! I missed that the quote was Backus's, it makes a lot more sense now. The quality of your photos is excellent and I doubt a scanner would make them much better. I wish there was a transcript though. As a start, here is the first letter transcribed: to John Backus International Business Machines Corporation 5600 Cattle Road SAN JOSE CA 95193 U.S.A Monday 29th of May, 1978 “To inte…
I've started a GitHub repo with a first draft of transcripts for all the letters.
https://github.com/jiahao/backus-dijkstra-letters-1979
Anyone else who is interested is welcome to help proofread and submit PRs.