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Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

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Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#51

Post by nerdponx »

iconjack wrote: post #50

Well I'm sure this is a naive point of view, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. It seems there are many Python devotees out there who are lukewarm about Python 3, and quite a few who really don't like it at all, hence a slow adoption rate. Right now it seems like the community is fractured along that fault line. Is it too late? Can we back out of the current incarnation of Python 3 and go down another path ins…

As someone who learn Python 3 first, I'm amazed that people really think Python 2 is better.

After so many years, why the resistance?

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#52

Post by foobarian »

StavrosK wrote: post #20
dkarapetyan wrote: post #17

This again? Python 2.7 is never going away, no matter how much people wish it did. Python is the Cobol/Java of dynamic languages. There is way too much volume of code written in it. This means there is a golden consulting opportunity for those willing to take it: support 2.7 code/libraries for money.

This again indeed, because Python 2.7 is going away. Python 3 is the future, and we've been resting on our "eh, python 2.7 is convenient enough" mindset for too long. We should just bite the bullet and move to 3, which isn't even that bad of a migration. Also, "supporting legacy code for money" is already everyone's job, unless you're implying that there are as many Python programmers as there are COBOL ones.

I would be so happy if our company could migrate everything to Python 2.7. We still have a lot of 2.5 and 2.6 around.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#53

Post by shadowmint »

asdfologist wrote: post #49
shadowmint wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people really dont care about the future of python, they just want to write code. ...and honestly, whats wrong with that? really, what difference does it make if people use old python versions? Other than the core python team, which get to be embarrased that many people have zero interest in the work theyre doing? Does it affect you? nope. Does it break the ecosystem? nope. Does it make library authors suffe…

I think you missed the whole point of this thread. People want ongoing official support of Python 2.7, which involves resources that could be used elsewhere. Supporting stuff is not free, you know?

https://hg.python.org/cpython/graph

I guess you can decide for yourself if the 'official support' of python is a massive drain on resources that could be used else where.

(The red line with a few commits now and then is the 2.7 branch)

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#54

Post by asdfologist »

shadowmint wrote: post #53
asdfologist wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the whole point of this thread. People want ongoing official support of Python 2.7, which involves resources that could be used elsewhere. Supporting stuff is not free, you know?

https://hg.python.org/cpython/graph I guess you can decide for yourself if the 'official support' of python is a massive drain on resources that could be used else where. (The red line with a few commits now and then is the 2.7 branch)

That's a lot of commits. You just disproved your own argument.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#55

Post by zzzcpan »

altano wrote: post #41

I just recently started learning Python for the first time, and at some point I switched from playing with 2.7 to 3.x, and my uninformed opinion is that I'm shocked at how many seemingly completely unnecessary breaking changes there are. Did the parameter names to open()d really need to change? Why did I have to change from io.open() to open() for a stream? Did str.lowercase really need to become string.ascii_lowerca…

Language changes rarely make anything better or even worth doing. But they are very easy to do and so they are the things language developers usually want to do and want to play with. Asking the hard questions will only make you disappointed in them.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#56

Post by iconjack »

nerdponx wrote: post #51
iconjack wrote: post #50

Well I'm sure this is a naive point of view, but I'm going to put it out there anyway. It seems there are many Python devotees out there who are lukewarm about Python 3, and quite a few who really don't like it at all, hence a slow adoption rate. Right now it seems like the community is fractured along that fault line. Is it too late? Can we back out of the current incarnation of Python 3 and go down another path ins…

As someone who learn Python 3 first, I'm amazed that people really think Python 2 is better. After so many years, why the resistance?

I hope you didn't read my comment as saying Python 2 is better. Personally I don't have an opinion on that. But as you can see from this thread and many, many others, a lot of people are disappointed with Python 3's choices. You're right, it's been a lot of years, but if adoption has been as slow as some are suggesting, maybe we could cut our losses and put our beloved Python on a different path, as a community.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#57

Post by kinkdr »

Grokzen wrote: post #28
kinkdr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the list correct? It shows MySQL-python as 3.0 ready, but MySQL-python page ( https://pypi.python.org/pypi/MySQL-python/1.2.5 ) notes: > MySQL-3.23 through 5.5 and Python-2.4 through 2.7 are currently supported. Python-3.0 will be supported in a future release. PyPy is supported.

The tool they use to determine py3 support is the following: https://github.com/brettcannon/caniusepython3 They have overridden mysql-python with mysqlclient https://github.com/PyMySQL/mysqlclient-python

> They have overridden mysql-python with mysqlclient

I am aware of this, but the fact that the tool is reporting MySQL-python as 3.0 compatible, when it is not, is worrying.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#58

Post by kinkdr »

mfisher87 wrote: post #34
kinkdr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And vice-versa, it is not like users have some grunt against developers. They just don't want to go through the pain of having to migrate their applications and the instability that this will bring. (Disclaimer: I am not supporting any side)

Why does end-of-life mean you have to migrate your application? 2.7 isn't going to just go poof and self-destruct on your computer.

I am not following.. Using the same logic they could have stopped support for 2.x the moment 3.0 was released.

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#59

Post by afarrell »

kinkdr wrote: post #58
mfisher87 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does end-of-life mean you have to migrate your application? 2.7 isn't going to just go poof and self-destruct on your computer.

I am not following.. Using the same logic they could have stopped support for 2.x the moment 3.0 was released.

But they wouldn't be able to say "you should use python, we have all of these libraries!" Now, they can. There are a bunch of libraries that run under both 2.7 and 3.5, but they are doing extra work to make sure they work under both codebases and they are refraining from using any of the nice features of 3.5

Re: Python 2.7 Retirement Countdown

#60

Post by underyx »

unlinker wrote: post #21

3 Years 10 Months 13 Days 20 Hours 54 Minutes 31 Seconds until a community fork occurs.

Actually, it seems to me that everyone who is active in the community is already on Python 3 and is heavily in favor of upgrading.

The people who are still using Python 2 are the 'lazy' ones, who don't really care about the community at all; the ones who keep making comments like 'I just use whatever the `python` command starts.' I'm pretty sure these people couldn't maintain Python 2 by themselves.

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