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N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

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51–60 of 70 posts

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#51
post #11

In 200 years, when we look back on how science was funded, it will seem backwards and poorly designed. Big money has infiltrated politics, media & journalism, and of course science, but for some reason the public regards scientific research as still somewhat authentic and immune to corruption. This is far from the truth, especially in the U.S., there is hardly any authentic science left. Even those well intentioned r…

I'm curious when the golden age of authentic science ever was. Phrenology, Darwin, Galileo, Lysenkoism, Astrology, etc.

Research is always biased by whoever pays for it. Even self-funded research is biased.

> intellectual inequality

I have no idea what that is or how it applies here.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. At least in the NFL, players are making (incredibly good) money. In the NCAA, so many "student"-athletes are taken advantage of much more than NFL players.

I absolutely agree. The situation would be different if the coaches/college administrators didn't make so much money. I still wonder: would it break any laws for a university system to institute a pay cap across the board?

Let's not forget the college itself is making an unhealthy amount of money. It's not just the personnel, it's the universities.

I attended Vanderbilt and was incredibly proud to see then-Chancellor Gee actually eliminated teh athletic department. He believed the department had too much power because of it's revenue generating capabilities, and the only way around that was elimination.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#53
post #48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is hardly any authentic science left I'm sorry, but what? You list a half dozen of the hottest-button research areas, but those represent (with the exception of pharma) probably less than 2-3% of non-proprietary research. The rest of the iceberg is just normal scientists working on hard problems that aren't going to make anyone rich, and scraping by on whatever money they can find. And keeping the 'science=cor…

Hot button issues, like toxicity, health care, education, evolution, weight loss, endangered species, sleep, habitat, oral hygiene, etc. Just about anything related to either people, land, products, processes, faith, or stuff has someone who would like to influence the results. Even if it's simply do the experiment 100 times until you get the result you want. Or just quietly pull the plug when it's not going the way…

If you do the experiment until you get the result you want you are never doing it in good faith.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot button issues, like toxicity, health care, education, evolution, weight loss, endangered species, sleep, habitat, oral hygiene, etc. Just about anything related to either people, land, products, processes, faith, or stuff has someone who would like to influence the results. Even if it's simply do the experiment 100 times until you get the result you want. Or just quietly pull the plug when it's not going the way…

If you do the experiment until you get the result you want you are never doing it in good faith.

This assumes only one group gets funded. Bad actor A vs 100 grad students or whatever.

Alternatively, same experiment with slightly different formula.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#56
post #3

The problem that I see with the NFL is that they are essentially a monopoly on American Football. As a fan, I don't really have any choices. I detest many things that the NFL does, can't believe some of the players are allowed to play the game after what they do outside of work, etc. yet I have no option if I want to watch football. Combine this with the fact that NFL football is culturally ingrained in many peoples…

College football is a great alternative, as is the NHL. The NHL doesn't seem to have the same kind of conduct or injury problems that the NFL does. NCAA football isn't as tight or disciplined as the NFL, but the variance in skill level leads to some really exciting moments, and the passion and excitement really comes through most broadcasts. Way more teams means way more football.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#57
post #34
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would gladly support a league of slightly worse players if it wasn't as scummy as the NFL has proven itself to be. Isn't this what the USFL and XFL were intended to be? Even if the other league were to focus on niches (like indoor football). I don't see how this changes without some anti-trust kind of oversight by a higher authority than the already profit-focused (with the consequential ethically blinders) NFL.

USFL was fine as a spring league and would have probably continued to this day if it was left as a spring league. There is a pretty good documentary[1] on Netflix about the USFL and how attempting to make it a fall league competing directly with the NFL essentially handed it a death sentence. I don't want to spoil anything, of course, so you'll have to watch it yourself to see who's bright idea that was. It's really…

USFL would have died once players got huge salaries. The only reason it was doing alright was because players were underpaid. They had star QBS. The XFL was a summer league and failed because they had no talent.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#58
post #3

The problem that I see with the NFL is that they are essentially a monopoly on American Football. As a fan, I don't really have any choices. I detest many things that the NFL does, can't believe some of the players are allowed to play the game after what they do outside of work, etc. yet I have no option if I want to watch football. Combine this with the fact that NFL football is culturally ingrained in many peoples…

College football is a great alternative, as is the NHL. The NHL doesn't seem to have the same kind of conduct or injury problems that the NFL does. NCAA football isn't as tight or disciplined as the NFL, but the variance in skill level leads to some really exciting moments, and the passion and excitement really comes through most broadcasts. Way more teams means way more football.

College aged adults aren't immune to the long term effects of repeated head trauma. Unreported injuries among younger players may even be worse because of lying to stay in the game or trying to go all out to get noticed and win that lottery so many poor, talented kids buy into. But you don't see what happens after the years of them hurting themselves; no one follows and reports on the has beens who never made it, the ones who failed on the road the stardom.

Football is dangerous to long term brain health as long as people are impacting at any force with their heads and spines. There's more to the game than brute collisions and take downs, but it needs a rules update for it to be on the right side of modern medical science in the 21st century.

The only reasons not to are to protect the feelings of everyone who's been rooting on the pain and to shield the heads (how funny) from liability and litigation against their investments. If they admit the way it's being played hurts people and damages their brains, it'll be a shitstorm of guilt and blame. Parents, coaches, and fans all over are going to blame themselves for pushing their and other people's kids into getting late life brain damage for some local fame and and viewing pleasure.

Right now, someone is running damage control in the news saying reported concussions are higher for every sport compared to football-- emphasis on reported. No one is writing it down because it's just a "part of the game" unless they get knocked out or seize and EMS is called. If you're still on your feet and a smelling salt[1] gets your eyes focused, you're not concussed, you just need to toughen up. I wish I were exaggerating.

  [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6_QhPICfavwJ:escholarship.org/uc/item/7qq7b12k.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#59
post #11

In 200 years, when we look back on how science was funded, it will seem backwards and poorly designed. Big money has infiltrated politics, media & journalism, and of course science, but for some reason the public regards scientific research as still somewhat authentic and immune to corruption. This is far from the truth, especially in the U.S., there is hardly any authentic science left. Even those well intentioned r…

If you can think of a better way to fund science, let's hear it. There's no funding pathway that is clear of humans, and it is humans who exercise their preferences in funding paths.

BTW we just detected gravity waves, which opens up the first new way of perceiving the universe since Galileo. And we can't really explain about 95% of the known mass-energy of the universe. Oh, and we just figured out a way to custom-edit genomes.

Science is doing just fine right now.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College football, although it feeds the NFL, still has some rules in place that reduce some of the bad behavior. Of course, there's plenty of problems there, too, but these days I feel much less guilty cheering for a university team than for a pro team.

College football is much worse than the NFL. Players get paid nothing and still burden the same risks mostly. The idea that players are "getting an education" simply just isn't true when you consider some of the majors these guys are enrolled in. We need a minor league where players can make money. College football is insanely profitable.

I guess you call a 5 or 6 figure per-year free education, room and board, use of multimillion dollar facilites and training expertise, getting "paid nothing."

Minor league players don't make a lot of money. Sometimes they have to pay to play. They get chewed up and spit out broke for the most part.

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