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Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#51

Post by thrill »

tptacek wrote: post #10
puranjay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, wasn't the project over budget and hitting close to $100Bn in costs? Honestly, even $50Bn sounds like chump change for a project as ambitious as the Hyperloop. Nearly all large scale public infrastructure projects end up costing billions of dollars over estimated costs anyway.

If you're saying that the HSR project is over budget, you're right, but you're not helping the Hyperloop argument. The point is that if the HSR people can't get something done for $X, it's unlikely that Musk can do something even more ambitious for $X/10.

They are two different technologies. Budget estimates will involve different tradeoffs with different risk assumptions.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#52

Post by xiphias »

sigmar wrote: post #30
pieter1976 wrote: post #2

Haven't really fast trains (sometimes maglev) inside evacuated tubes been proposed over and over again. Trying to work out what is new here. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain

>Trying to work out what is new here. As with most very large scale projects, PR is the game changer. Elon Musk's backing of the concept and investment into competitive solutions for a hyperloop has created publicity and driven interest. The hyperloop doesn't need to be an innovative technological advancement to benefit society. It just needs to be safe, fast, and cost effective.

The whitepaper was more than just usual PR: he got lots of input of top engineers in the travel space and made the design free. I don't remember the CEO of Boing or BMW or any other transportation company doing anything similar.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#53

Post by tptacek »

thrill wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're saying that the HSR project is over budget, you're right, but you're not helping the Hyperloop argument. The point is that if the HSR people can't get something done for $X, it's unlikely that Musk can do something even more ambitious for $X/10.

They are two different technologies. Budget estimates will involve different tradeoffs with different risk assumptions.

Civil engineers have looked at the Hyperloop proposal and declared themselves unable to determine how Musk proposes to reduce the costs of long runs of overpass, or of tunneling.

A simpler way to make the same argument:

If Musk can actually build a Hyperloop across California at his proposed cost, he's made revolutionary improvements to civil engineering that will be far more impactful than the Hyperloop itself; the same techniques should revolutionize, well, much of conventional civil engineering! Why isn't that happening?

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#54

Post by api »

philwelch wrote: post #50

I know Elon Musk has a lot of goodwill around here, but is no one else cynical about the notion of a smart, ambitious automobile CEO coming up with some plausible-seeming science-fictional FUD to torpedo a high speed rail project that may very well compete with his interests?

In his case I sort of doubt it since he doesn't seem to operate that way.

In any case Tesla sales are not going to be impacted much by rail.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#56

Post by ericd »

philwelch wrote: post #50

I know Elon Musk has a lot of goodwill around here, but is no one else cynical about the notion of a smart, ambitious automobile CEO coming up with some plausible-seeming science-fictional FUD to torpedo a high speed rail project that may very well compete with his interests?

Not many people are buying Teslas to primarily commute between SF and LA. Also, the HSR project is a disaster - it's incredibly expensive and it's slow.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#57

Post by shawabawa3 »

Intermernet wrote: post #25

Sydney is just about to roll out a new (mostly) sub-terrainian train system [1] which would be an interesting demo for hyperloop tech, except for the large numbers of stops being incorporated into the trip. Despite this problem, the costings should be an example of how much it would cost to build new, tunnel based, infrastructure through similar areas (admittedly, Sydney is mostly soft sandstone). [1]: http://sydneym…

Hyperloop is designed to be above-ground, which is significantly cheaper. Also, musk's original route plan has it stopping outside city-centers (presumably to keep the cost-estimate down)

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#58

Post by ericd »

Animats wrote: post #40
shawabawa3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The journalist is wrong/simplifying See wikipedia [0]: "pressurized capsules ride on an air cushion driven by linear induction motors and air compressors" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

The MIT prototype, and some of the other proposals, are really a maglev system. The original Hyperloop proposal called for aerodynamic support, with very tight tolerances, but that turns out to be iffy. A maglev system needs a much more expensive track and/or a lot of energy from the vehicle to power the lift. This is the big problem with maglev - track cost. Maglev works fine; the Transrapid system in Shanghai has b…

Ah that explains all the maglev. I could have sworn that the original version rode on air and used its electric turbine for propulsion.

Anything good you've read that explains why they've abandoned that route?

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#59

Post by craftkiller »

philwelch wrote: post #50

I know Elon Musk has a lot of goodwill around here, but is no one else cynical about the notion of a smart, ambitious automobile CEO coming up with some plausible-seeming science-fictional FUD to torpedo a high speed rail project that may very well compete with his interests?

I'd argue the two synergize. Electric cars have a limited range and while there's going to be plenty of charging stations that's still time and effort. Seems much more likely to me that his end-game is hyperloop for longer travel and then a self driving fleet of teslas in an on-demand service at each station.

Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?

#60

Post by [deleted] »

jerf wrote: post #6
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tube would not be evacuated. The train sucks the air in front of it and pushes it around and especially below, creating an air cushion just like an air hockey, further decreasing energy requirement for movement. That way you also get rid of the air evacuation cost.

"What is Hyperloop? "Hyperloop is a conceptual transport system in which passengers are loaded into pods and fired through vacuum tubes at more than 600mph (1,000km/h).... "Pumping the air out of the tubes reduces resistance, allowing high speeds to be achieved, potentially using less energy than a train."

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