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The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

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Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#51

Post by oblio »

adventured wrote: post #43
oblio wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for that :( Romania actually has a lower crime rate than the US, so you were unlucky. The cop part is what they're working on with the whole anti corruption initiative.

That would heavily depend on what type of crime you're talking about. For example, corruption is a very serious form of crime. Romania ranks #58 (below Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Croatia, and Greece) on Transparency International's corruption index, compared to the US at #16. With Romania having such extreme corruption, how can you be certain its crime stats are worth taking seriously? How under-reported is crime - rape,…

I'm not sure that the police reward system is based on crime stats over here. I.e. the police chief gets more money if he reports fewer crimes. Considering the way people in our public sector think, it's more likely that the police chief would want to report more crimes, since he can hire more people, get more resources and likely more bribes.

And my anecdotal evidence says that Romania is truly a safe country. I probably know 1000+ Romanians and I know 1 that has been robbed while being threatened with a knife and several that have had things stolen from them. This feeling of safety is one of the few things that's reported constantly by people I know, either in rural areas or in urban areas: violence is not wide spread. We even have a proverb that says: "mamaliga explodeaza greu" ("it takes a long tine for mamaliga to explode": mamaliga is a local dish, a sort of corn porridge; the meaning of the expression is that we don't get aggravated quickly; we do talk a lot, curse and threaten and whatever but we tend to not actually fight that much... maybe we're cowards :) ). Most people over here would find the US gung-ho mentality quite threatening ("don't take my guns", "stand your ground").

What does happen constantly, and what the agency I posted above tries to fight, is wide spread practice of asking for bribes for any kind of service performed by a public servant. Which has a huge negative impact on small businesses, especially.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#52

Post by disposeofnick9 »

tlogan wrote: post #34

Since I'm from that part of the world and traveling a lot there, here is my take on this: - All eastern European countries have a great talent but that talent is created during socialist area (free education, focus on math, etc.). However, quality of new talent is not so great. If somebody is good, they go to work in Germany / Austria / Switzerland. - Work and business habits are terrible. It seems like they always t…

For multinational companies, Belarus has been a solid country for sourcing technical talent. (Some work remote while others get visas... being flexible as an employer retains the best people longer.)

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#53

Post by disposeofnick9 »

dataker wrote: post #25

Like other eastern european countries, Romanians suffer greatly with poor branding and "western-centrism". While in Germany, I watched clear demonstrations of discrimination towards Romanians in a tech startup. They really had to prove themselves. Although extremelly talented, "jokes" would always fly around the "gypsy stereotype". That being said, as a startup founder, I'd assume it'd be much harder to raise money f…

Yup. One person's stupidity is another wise, entrepreneur's money-making opportunity... hire LGBTQ, disabled, ex-cons, neurodiversity, anyone whom typical businesses "reject," not just for PR reasons but to win bigger with untapped capabilities others cannot see or manage.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#54

Post by mbesto »

ddalex wrote: post #11

This is a nice summary of what's going on - to get to the gist of it, Romania has great technical talent, coming out of decent technical schools. What severely lacks in Romania, in my view: a). the business environment; the internal demand isn't enough to support starting and growing business on the local market; building products for external markets from get-go is difficult. This leads to: b). the business talent;…

I'm an American who used to work for a British company and we did exactly this. I spent a good year and a half building teams in Cluj to very good success. The developers in Cluj were top notch and most all worked for US/EU based firms (Westinghouse, Nokia, Betfair, etc were some of the biggest there). I don't think I interfaced or saw any companies focusing on building software specifically for the Romanian market...the country still has ways to go in physical infrastructure before it can adopt technical infrastructure.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#56

Post by crocozaurus »

balazsbela wrote: post #39
crocozaurus wrote: post #38

I am from Cluj, Romania and I am a developer for some years now. I really know how things are in the IT sector in Cluj and I really know how my country stacks up against others. The article is not accurate and highlights mostly positive aspects. The programmers are decent and hard working, but nothing spectacular going on. They might not be your first pick when you want innovation. We are mostly self-taught ( thanks…

"but no Romanian University is within the top 500 at the computer science section" http://news.ubbcluj.ro/noutati/universitatea-babes-bolyai-%E... As most people who live there, you have an insider's perspective and you tend to overestimate how other places are doing. Cluj and Bucharest are islands in that country, in terms of economic growth. The biggest strength of the IT sector in Cluj is its drive and motivation.…

Yes, you made some fair points on some items.

I mentioned that no university is in top 500 at COMPUTER SCIENCE. And they are not. Babes is ranked higher since a professor published some articles but on math, and not CS. And it was done in partnership with some Saudi University. But as for CS, there is no university in the 500 rank. That is a bit of paradox right there.

Yes, comparing Cluj or Bucharest with London is not fair. But comparing Bucharest with Helsinki is. Bucharest has a higher population, and thus has more potential. But Helsinki clearly outperforms Bucharest, be it in universities, companies or projects.

And for the other points, I agree with you.

Thanks for you commentz, Balazs.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#57

Post by crocozaurus »

hvm wrote: post #44
crocozaurus wrote: post #38

I am from Cluj, Romania and I am a developer for some years now. I really know how things are in the IT sector in Cluj and I really know how my country stacks up against others. The article is not accurate and highlights mostly positive aspects. The programmers are decent and hard working, but nothing spectacular going on. They might not be your first pick when you want innovation. We are mostly self-taught ( thanks…

> You learn about Dijkstra, Turing, Fermat and Leibniz, but not Popescu or Iliescu Andrei Alexandrescu pops into my head and I'm sure I could find a few more if I thought about it. > And within those that do use it, the vast majority are on Facebook and Youtube As opposed to the west where everyone is using the Internet for maximizing their productivity. > There is a lot of impostors in our universities and plagiaris…

Yes, there are a few, like Alexandrescu or Mihai Pătrașcu. Don't get me wrong. They are exceptionally smart and hard working. I admire them. But their success, like that of most who participate in Olympiads, is the result of their exceptional hard work and that of a handful of dedicated teachers. It is not the merit of the education system. But you should also know that there are hundreds other like Pătrașcu, from all over the globe. We don't stand out from the crowd. And another thing. I know a single example of a person in Romania who grew up in Romania and became recognized for his work in Romania. Almost all of them had to flew to other universities in the West and there they managed to make great contributions. That is a great contrast as well. The educational environment is so corrupt and unfair that people of genuine value just don't want to work there. Most of them that stay are opportunists. Not all of them, but well over 80%.

:)), yes about the internet usage. The vast majority of people in the west also use it for Facebook or Youtube. Don't get me wrong; I doubt people in Holland skip Facebook and study Dijkstra work :) But a disproportionately higher number of people from those countries use the Internet for more noble purposes. Not just entertainment. As for companies there are a number of statistics that show how they use it for increased productivity. And Romania, as in most statistics, sits at the bottom.

But fair points, nonetheless.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#58

Post by madaxe_again »

oblio wrote: post #51
adventured wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would heavily depend on what type of crime you're talking about. For example, corruption is a very serious form of crime. Romania ranks #58 (below Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Croatia, and Greece) on Transparency International's corruption index, compared to the US at #16. With Romania having such extreme corruption, how can you be certain its crime stats are worth taking seriously? How under-reported is crime - rape,…

I'm not sure that the police reward system is based on crime stats over here. I.e. the police chief gets more money if he reports fewer crimes. Considering the way people in our public sector think, it's more likely that the police chief would want to report more crimes, since he can hire more people, get more resources and likely more bribes. And my anecdotal evidence says that Romania is truly a safe country. I pro…

Interesting point you make re: small businesses - my friend runs a web development shop, and he was telling me about how they keep accounts, and "accounts", because declaring a profit is a good way to ensure a tax inspector will arrive and won't leave until you bribe him to go away.

Interestingly, this phenomenon isn't limited to Romania - a Latvian friend running a furniture company does the same thing for the same reason - for the first two years of his business he filed genuine books - the first year, they came asking for a bribe, he refused - the second year, they raided him and took all the machine tools - so now he just "makes a loss" every year and they don't bother him.

Similarly, a Lithuanian friend who used to run a telco found himself stuck in the middle of a lover's quarrel between the state telecoms regulator and another telco who had paid a bribe to win a tender, which he then bid for and made things awkward.

Corruption is no joke - I think many underestimate the chilling effect it has on everything from civil liberties to tourism to business to tax revenue collection - if your tax collectors are corrupt, you are well and truly on the road to hell.

Re: Romania feeling safe, you're right - which is in no small part why my experience in Bucharest was such a shock - it was at total odds with the Romania I'd experienced up to that point.

Re: The Silicon Valley of Transylvania

#59

Post by oblio »

madaxe_again wrote: post #58
oblio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that the police reward system is based on crime stats over here. I.e. the police chief gets more money if he reports fewer crimes. Considering the way people in our public sector think, it's more likely that the police chief would want to report more crimes, since he can hire more people, get more resources and likely more bribes. And my anecdotal evidence says that Romania is truly a safe country. I pro…

Interesting point you make re: small businesses - my friend runs a web development shop, and he was telling me about how they keep accounts, and "accounts", because declaring a profit is a good way to ensure a tax inspector will arrive and won't leave until you bribe him to go away. Interestingly, this phenomenon isn't limited to Romania - a Latvian friend running a furniture company does the same thing for the same…

They've started sending doctors, cops, clerks, etc. to jail for taking bribes. They're encouraging people to organize stings when asked for money. It is a struggle but things are actually changing.

You have to remember that Romania wasn't all that "clean" even before Communists came and Communism is basically "the state as a criminal organization". Old habits die hard.

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