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Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

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Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well no bankers anyway. Please point to the convictions. We don't throw people in jail because we don't like their business practices. The idea that the government wasn't absolutely salivating at the opportunity to throw some bankers in jail is one of the funniest things I read on the internet. People don't seem to understand that the government and banking industry are often at odds on many things. Of course, ofte…

OK, how was TARP not a gift?

TARP has yielded a $64.5B profit [0] for the government. It was a loan, not a gift. It should be noted that the financial bailout was profitable, while the auto bailout netted a $9.5B loss [1].

[0] https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/business/us-signals-end-of...

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#52
post #16

Exactly, the problem has got worse. Banks are larger and more centralised, the offenders unpunished know they can act with impunity, legislation is unchanged. Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays. This is despotic anti-capitalism: they keep the winnings and losses are generational debt on which they again profit.…

This can really be traced back to the repeal of Glass Steagal. After the great depression in the 30s, congress passed the Glass Steagal act, which put a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks. In other words, Wall Street investment banks could no longer gamble with customer deposits. This seems like common sense, and all of the financial problems actually occurred after Glass Steagal was repealed in the 90s.

It seems fairly obvious in hindsight that Glass Steagal was good legislation. It led to a 60+ year period of extended prosperity, and the greatest economy in the world. Once it was repealed, it set us up for a global financial crisis a decade later.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#53
I think if enough people cared you could greatly affect how US Banks act. In reality they are pretty much owned by you (through Vanguard, Fidelity, Blackrock, Capital Companies Group etc.) you have 0 input on how they vote though with your shares.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#54
post #16

Exactly, the problem has got worse. Banks are larger and more centralised, the offenders unpunished know they can act with impunity, legislation is unchanged. Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays. This is despotic anti-capitalism: they keep the winnings and losses are generational debt on which they again profit.…

"Austerity stagnates an economy". How did overspending work out for Greece? [ edit: I'd be glad to discuss substance. The admittedly rhetorical question stands. What is the evidence on overspending and growth? ]

Put simply: it is fraudulent when a creditor uses lies or deception. JP Morgan deceived the Greek people by masking a massive loan to the Greek government as a "currency swap", seemingly to avoid the financial regulators within the EU. See here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.htm...

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#55
post #16

Exactly, the problem has got worse. Banks are larger and more centralised, the offenders unpunished know they can act with impunity, legislation is unchanged. Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays. This is despotic anti-capitalism: they keep the winnings and losses are generational debt on which they again profit.…

Funny that GWB got away with such a blatant bit of Keynesianism. A Democrat would be crucified.

This is actually the pretty well known "only Nixon could go to China" effect.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#56
post #16

Exactly, the problem has got worse. Banks are larger and more centralised, the offenders unpunished know they can act with impunity, legislation is unchanged. Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays. This is despotic anti-capitalism: they keep the winnings and losses are generational debt on which they again profit.…

This can really be traced back to the repeal of Glass Steagal. After the great depression in the 30s, congress passed the Glass Steagal act, which put a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks. In other words, Wall Street investment banks could no longer gamble with customer deposits. This seems like common sense, and all of the financial problems actually occurred after Glass Steagal was repealed in t…

I agree that this is the heart of the issue.

And the American people are about to elect back into the White House the couple that presided over the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act.

So much for learned lessons.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#57
post #22
post #4

There's a lot to read. Can someone explain the details of actual crimes for which they were convicted? The whole "finance crimes" always seem a little fuzzy. If you run up $70 billion in debt, for example, and need a bailout, is that a crime? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-29/puerto-ric... It almost seems like a game.

My uncle is one of the jailed, mentioned in the article. One of Iceland’s most respected lawyers and teacher at the University of Iceland has gone on paper, and on radio, and on TV, saying that the Al Thani trials did not make any sense, for more than one reason. The most obvious mistake was that by the time the case went from local courtrooms to the federal level the prosecution had completely switched the focus of…

It's fairly common in the US for people under threat of prosecution to turn into states witnesses to get a reduced sentence - "rat out your manager/boss who ordered the crimes and we'll let you off easy."

Is this uncommon in Iceland? It seems fairly straightforward and useful in cases like organized crime syndicates (and banking cartels) where if everyone denies wrongdoing they all get found not guilty.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can really be traced back to the repeal of Glass Steagal. After the great depression in the 30s, congress passed the Glass Steagal act, which put a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks. In other words, Wall Street investment banks could no longer gamble with customer deposits. This seems like common sense, and all of the financial problems actually occurred after Glass Steagal was repealed in t…

I agree that this is the heart of the issue. And the American people are about to elect back into the White House the couple that presided over the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act. So much for learned lessons.

To be fair, Clinton only signed the law - it was created and voted for by a Republican majority congress. Look at the votes - every Republican senator voted Yea and only one Democrat voted Nay: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/s105

He still shouldn't have signed it, but to blame this law on the Clintons is really not being honest.

Re: Iceland put top finance executives behind bars, but fears of cronyism remain

#60
post #16

Exactly, the problem has got worse. Banks are larger and more centralised, the offenders unpunished know they can act with impunity, legislation is unchanged. Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays. This is despotic anti-capitalism: they keep the winnings and losses are generational debt on which they again profit.…

> Banking/ finance types now know that if they are losing money they must simply lose big enough to trigger more bailouts and the taxpayer pays.

This is ignoring a fundamental change in legislation that happened pretty much in every major country: the introduction of bail-in. For those who are unfamiliar with the concept, it is a major change to corporate law, it is a power given to the regulators to declare a bank non viable, and to impose losses on bond and equity holders over a week end, a sort of instantaneous chapter 11. The impact of which is to increase the capital of the bank and allow it to re-open the next Monday, affecting the creditors of the bank but not the economy. It is extremely unlikely that a politician, in any major country, would authorise a bail-out before having first attempted a bail-in. And banks are now required to hold a sufficient amount of bail-inable debt (called TLAC or MREL) to ensure that the bank can be recapitalised should it become non viable.

> This will happen again unless investment and savings banks are again separated, but no nation wants to do it

In the UK the regulators are implementing a strict ring-fencing which requires investment banking and retail banking activities to be in two separate and independent entities such that one can go bust without impacting the other.

> Banks and the rich largely hoard capital where it is useless

That's true, banks are hoarding capital, but not because bank like to make useless investment, because they have been required since the financial crisis to increase their capital ratios significantly, which means they need to hold more capital (or reduce their exposure) and not deploy it. But that's the price for a stronger banking system than in 2007.

> Austerity stagnates an economy.

Who does austerity? Everywhere I look I see massive amount of money printing and huge budget deficits. That's not austerity.

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