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Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

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Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#51

Post by fogus »

volomike wrote: post #19
colinplamondon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guy dicks around with forces he doesn't have the free cash available to dick around with, blames IRS. Later finds himself losing work due to working in aerospace as Air Force bases are closed in the 90's, leading into 9/11 and a meltdown in his ability to generate personal revenue. Blames IRS. Runs out of money, blames IRS. Flies plain into IRS building with the intent to indiscriminately murder anyone who happens to…

I tell you, I can be sympathetic to a letter such as his, to some of the things any of us can easily see are wrong right now in the USA, but of course I do not condone his extreme by any means. However, here was the kicker for me: "But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income". Let me get this straight -- he was in love and married. Forget all the money stuff, tax liens, unemployment, whate…

Last I checked marriage does not always proceed from love.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#52

Post by CoryMathews »

grandalf wrote: post #43
CoryMathews wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, The way I see it is that if its a criminal act against the government it because terrorism. Had he been out to kill someone in that building it would have been a criminal act. This was terrorism.

Why is it terrorism? Are you now living in terror that it will happen again?

personally no, but I wasn't for 9/11 either. But not sure if I can say the same for those people in the building.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#53

Post by slackerIII »

blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

Why can't he just be a crazy person who did something crazy?

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#54

Post by wheels »

blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

You, sir, have obviously failed to memo that in this post-9/11-world, only brown people are terrorists.

Here's a key, in case it gets confusing again:

- Guy in an airport with a Koran and an accent: terrorist.

- White software developer who flies a plane into buildings for ideological reasons: not terrorist.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#55

Post by nhebb »

blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

It's simple. The goal of terrorism is to terrorize. If the perpetrator was part of an organization from which similar acts could be expected in the future, than that has a terrorizing effect.

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#56

Post by BigZaphod »

dkimball wrote: post #46
colinplamondon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guy dicks around with forces he doesn't have the free cash available to dick around with, blames IRS. Later finds himself losing work due to working in aerospace as Air Force bases are closed in the 90's, leading into 9/11 and a meltdown in his ability to generate personal revenue. Blames IRS. Runs out of money, blames IRS. Flies plain into IRS building with the intent to indiscriminately murder anyone who happens to…

I think he has a point about the sloppiness and unresponsiveness of the government -- although the sloppiness and unresponsiveness of a large, bureaucratic organization hardly justifies carrying out his own miniature September 11th! Doubly painful in that the people he killed probably liked the IRS no more than he did -- few workers in government bureaucracy _enjoy_ what they have to put up with... Killing others and…

It's just a bug in our design as humans, IMO, but it's that same bug which allows us to occasionally do monumentally amazing things. It just depends how you spin your perceptions to yourself, I suppose, and if you can accept that greatness is, more or less, a large scale way of turning a frown upside down. :)

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#57

Post by lallysingh »

blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

The FBI's definition of terrorism: The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

He was angry and violent, but he didn't have any objective he was trying to achieve through the act. The objective in terrorism isn't the violence, it's a means to an intended end (such as changes in policy, release of prisoners, etc.).

Re: Anti-IRS Rant of Software Engineer who Today Flew Plane into IRS Building

#59

Post by scott_s »

BigZaphod wrote: post #37
blackguardx wrote: post #16

The Department of Homeland Security released a statement calling this a criminal act, not terrorism. I am confused. A few years ago everything was considered terrorism and now nothing is. This guy wasn't targeting individual people in the IRS, he was targeting the whole establishment. This is akin to the Oklahoma City bombing. If that was a terrorist incident and 9/11 was a terrorist incident, this is too. He even ha…

Would you be so quick to assume the terrorism label if he hadn't used an airplane to commit his crime? I do think that's going to color a lot of people's perception of this wording issue. I suspect they don't believe the term applies because he didn't claim to be acting on the part of an organized group or even a very specific ideology. His note made it pretty clear he thought of himself as some kind of lone warrior…

Read the final two paragraphs of his screed (posted in this thread). He says that he wants his act of violence to initiate change - I assume in the IRS specifically, but also in American politics in general. That's the definition of terrorism.

Terrorism does not have to be initiated on behalf of a group or a specific ideology. The definition is "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes."

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