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What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

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Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#51
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "solution" means many people have to not use the internet. Sucks to be them, I guess. Meanwhile, people saying they want to rape you, or posting images of dead children to you, or posting your address and saying they're going to murder you, get to carry on without hinderance.

That behavior is illegal regardless of the medium. Report it to the police. It has nothing to do with the internet.

> Report it to the police

Since when does that help? http://www.adistantsoil.com/2011/12/18/stalked-someones-watc... http://www.themarysue.com/zoe-quinn-drops-case/

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#52
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "solution" means many people have to not use the internet. Sucks to be them, I guess. Meanwhile, people saying they want to rape you, or posting images of dead children to you, or posting your address and saying they're going to murder you, get to carry on without hinderance.

> Your "solution" means many people have to not use the internet. Where was that said? I don't see this comment at all. "turning your devices off now and then" is akin to stepping out of a discussion when you start to take things personally. That doesn't mean you are banned from all conversations. It's healthy to take a break.

There's a big difference between trolling and stalking. The problem is that what happens to pass as trolling today isn't even trolling it's just plain stalking. When you post someone's address, a photo of their house, or call someone's local PD to coax them to send the SWAT to their house then you're not a troll. A troll is all about flames and absurd reactions from people.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a lot of the problems with trolling is inexperienced users not realising that the Internet is the technology equivalent of the wild west. They sign up for services, post all their details and make the sort of off-hand comments that wouldn't be picked up in close circles, except they are using a global publishing platform (social media).

The Internet continues to look less and less like the wild west, and as that trend continues (to torture the metaphor a bit), the expectation that users should go around with guns strapped to their hips will continue to diminish.

Yep. It's a gentrification that has been chipping away at different aspects of the Internet for as long as I can remember. A struggle between the pioneers who have learned to live (and even flourish) within the chaos, and the rest of society who want the chaos eliminated.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#54
Moderation is the best way to stop them. If you've got actual people going through posts and content and removing the low quality stuff, you'll maintain a much more well ordered and useful community than you would a mostly 'uncensored' platform.

Unfortunately, this has a few issues...

1. You need the manpower to actually check what's being posted on a regular basis. Or enough active members willing to help out that they'll do it for you on a voluntary basis as moderators. This is obviously easier for small sites like customer support forums and the average fan site.

2, You need to really, really limit bias as much as possible, so that you're booting out people or bots because of their behaviour rather than their political/social stances. This is what Twitter doesn't do at the moment, to the point being a 'progressive' troll is a good way to never get banned while being a conservative or having an unpopular opinion will get your account suspended for the smallest trangression.

3. A willingness to ban popular, rich or 'powerful' users as much as anyone else, if they break the rules. A good forum/community manager will just as easily kick out a troll with ten thousand posts as one with ten, but social media sites don't seem to have figured this out yet.

So for a community manager or site owner, moderation is the best way to stop internet trolls (and every other type of troublemaker or nuisance as well).

Making a user's post invisible to everyone but himself (shadowbanning or as vBulletin called it, Tachy goes to Coventry) and making their time on the site a nightmare due to fake errors (hell banning/miserable users) used to work. Note the word used to, since the internet is a lot more savvy about this sort of stuff and will usually figure out these systems pretty quickly now.

As for how to avoid internet trolls as a user? Well, stay off large social sites with few rules (or in some cases, extremely badly enforced ones) and go to places where the people tend to be a bit nicer to each other due to a shared interest or two. Less Twitter, more forums.

Stay fairly anonymous wherever possible. Seriously, trolls love knowing every detail about someone's offline existence and what annoys or upsets them. By giving less personal information, you force people to either REALLY dig for information to use or to attack your arguments rather than your background/appearance/personality.

Don't engage in arguments with trolls/idiots. The more you make it seem to affect you, the more pleasure a troll will get from their actions. If you've ever watched The Simpsons, you probably remember the scenes where Bart prank calls Moe's Tavern, right? Or how often, Moe would basically scream back down the phone in anger afterwards? That's what a troll wants to see. They want people who are easy to annoy.

So yeah. Moderated community platforms tend to be the best way to stop internet trolls, since they mean such users and comments are removed as quickly as possible.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#55

A beer truck? Seriously everywhere you have free and open communication some people will be trolls. The only difference between today and say 2500 years ago is the speed of dissemination and little fear of being run through with a sword.

The only difference between today and say 2500 years ago is the speed of dissemination and little fear of being run through with a sword.

I think, though, that it's a pretty huge difference. The speed with which someone can crap all over a discussion is instantaneous and psychologically a lot easier due to not being "in person". Trolling in the form that it would have existed a couple of centuries ago[1] still exists today (without the sword, perhaps, but the threat of violence in retaliation to trolling still exists today -- we just have better technology and better enforcement). I would use Donald Trump as an example. He gets his share of trolling (and non-trolling protesting) at his in-person events, however, I'd hazard a guess that the amount of such activity during his entire campaign would be about as much as is seen in an hour on Reddit.

[1] We don't have a lot of historical evidence that dates back 2500 years, so I'm assuming that was a typo or an embellishment used to make a point (or, perhaps, something I missed in my speed reading of the article).

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your "solution" means many people have to not use the internet. Where was that said? I don't see this comment at all. "turning your devices off now and then" is akin to stepping out of a discussion when you start to take things personally. That doesn't mean you are banned from all conversations. It's healthy to take a break.

Given that modern harassment (particularly on Twitter) involves being targets by thousands of accounts over a period of months or years, how long do you think would be appropriate to turn your devices off for? This isn't about someone "[taking] things personally" -- this is about organized groups making existing platforms unusable for their targets.

I think that's called DDoS, not trolling.

Who is targeted by that and why? Who organizes that - I mean, why would thousands of people suddenly have reason to hate you?

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#57

Remove all perceived anonymity. Of course that sense of anonymity is what makes the experience richer and safer. I'd rather just live with the trolls. Is it that bad?

I wish this were a silver bullet, and of course, nothing would completely be a silver bullet, but even in forums/comments that require the use of a "Real Name" (to the extent it can truly be enforced), it's clear that people are OK with trolling under their actual name. The perception of anonymity is important, yes, but the illusion that they're not attacking a "real person" seems to be enough to let people become detached enough to be examples of terrible human beings.

And losing anonymity also reduces someone's willingness to talk openly (and civilly) about a topic that they may otherwise be unwilling to discuss (sexuality, medical issues, etc). Heck, I won't even talk directly about my political opinion after reading articles about how people with strong political views are willing to reject a candidate for hiring entirely because of them not aligning politically (not really a problem for me since I generally hate politics).

This also lowers the number of available voices and it might reduce the ratio as it relates to trolls. In a sensitive topic do we lose more trolls this way or do we lose more civil conversation? I'm not sure.

Elimination of anonymity helps, yes, but isn't appropriate for every kind of discussion and must be combined with other methods.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#58
post #4

Don't feed them?

That doesn't work. They are perfectly happy to revel in the attention of their friends. http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/02/28/dont-f...

This is what caused me to wonder if allowing trolls, but eliminating their conversation from everyone but other trolling users might be an option. Let them revel in the attention of their friends, but have that attention only serve to give them the illusion that they're affecting others while directly causing others to ignore them (and thus, prevent unintentional feeding). It'd be tricky to get right and probably not worth the energy in most places, but would be interesting to see and study the results.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#59
post #56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that modern harassment (particularly on Twitter) involves being targets by thousands of accounts over a period of months or years, how long do you think would be appropriate to turn your devices off for? This isn't about someone "[taking] things personally" -- this is about organized groups making existing platforms unusable for their targets.

I think that's called DDoS, not trolling. Who is targeted by that and why? Who organizes that - I mean, why would thousands of people suddenly have reason to hate you?

One scenario: A celebrity with a million followers says something. A non-celebrity tweets an opposing response. 0.1% of the celebrity's followers take that as an attack on their idol and start heaping abuse on that person. (numbers sourced from rectal data repository, for illustrative purposes)

In that case, it's not really "organized" by anyone in particular.

Re: What Is the Best Way to Stop Internet Trolls?

#60
post #16
post #8

I feel like an odd man out every time this topic comes up. Like I'm sure many others here I've been involved in online communities and discussions in some form or another since it was all green text on a black background, and I don't think things are any different now than they have ever been in any way that really matters. The secret to dealing with internet trolling is some combination of ignoring it, turning your…

Your "solution" means many people have to not use the internet. Sucks to be them, I guess. Meanwhile, people saying they want to rape you, or posting images of dead children to you, or posting your address and saying they're going to murder you, get to carry on without hinderance.

A person who is not comfortable with an anonymous, fictional, and harmless interaction with someone who uses curse words or claims they will rape them can avoid this problem by not engaging in the specific components of internet usage where that may happen. Browsing their favorite news sites, shopping on Amazon, or booking airline tickets will likely be unaffected, meaning your comment is obvious hyperbole.

Some online behavior that crosses into the real world will and has always been illegal and actionable of course, as I noted in the original comment. Most of what people consider "online abuse" isn't in that category.

If you don't want to see rippling abs and cleavage you have to avoid nearly all advertising these days. If you don't like guns you can't watch movie trailers. The modern world has many such dilemmas. Ignoring the things you find objectionable shouldn't be discounted as a simple solution.

As I said, I realize I'm out of the mainstream. But I've been called horrible things and even doxxed and stalked and threatened in the real world by online commenters a couple times over the past 20 years. I've found that "not caring about it" has been a shockingly useful and effective tool.

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