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How to do a PhD

jameshaytonphd.com

51–60 of 60 posts

Re: How to do a PhD

#51
post #27

I've seen a lot of really good people get very badly hurt pursuing a Ph.D. I did get a STEM field Ph.D. but didn't get hurt. For a good and broad view of the problem, buried in D. Knuth's The TeXBook is "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate schoo…

re: "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate school he's told to do something original."

A lot can change over the last 35 years : http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=5517&from=fu...

Re: How to do a PhD

#52
post #46
post #27

I've seen a lot of really good people get very badly hurt pursuing a Ph.D. I did get a STEM field Ph.D. but didn't get hurt. For a good and broad view of the problem, buried in D. Knuth's The TeXBook is "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate schoo…

I like the "new, correct, and significant" guideline. But, I would add it's often easier to look at a thesis as a way to document original research than an end goal. Basically, if you are in the habit of doing original research then creating a dissertation is easy. If you try and find research worthy of a dissertation what that can be much harder. Remember, the value of a PHD is maintained by rejecting people. If you…

In most fields, the main issue is just getting the "few papers" to be able just to "staple together".

Re: How to do a PhD

#53
post #27

I've seen a lot of really good people get very badly hurt pursuing a Ph.D. I did get a STEM field Ph.D. but didn't get hurt. For a good and broad view of the problem, buried in D. Knuth's The TeXBook is "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate schoo…

re: "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate school he's told to do something original." A lot can change over the last 35 years : http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=5517&from=fu...

In practice, that undergrad research is mostly for biomedical wet lab research under close supervision of a much more senior person?

There will be some issues of social maturity that can get in the way of the research. E.g., typically an undergrad student is still under some influence of some of the unfortunate attitudes of some of their high school teachers.

E.g., after my junior year, I had a summer job in a bio-physics lab doing electronics. I knew Maxwell's equations well enough, but what I didn't know, and hurt a lot, was that I really needed to get the data sheets on some power transistors, read off some values, and, then, just apply Ohm's Law to characterize the usual operating range of those power transistors. I didn't have enough social maturity to do well enough asking others, and from high school I was too afraid just to use my own judgment, strike out into the unknown, and discover that all I had to do was just use the data sheets. That is, I guessed that digging into the data sheets would be too much of a detour and I'd get criticized. Also the guy I was working for kept emphasizing that I should take a practical approach and shouldn't go off into too much theory. Gee, I just needed to read the darned data sheets and, there, the curves that showed the basic, simple minded performance of the power transistors.

Out of undergraduate school and in a job for a while and with some good successes, I came to have a sense of what where good, appropriate, and promising investments into the unknown. The lessons of high school conflicted with that "sense".

Re: How to do a PhD

#54
post #44
post #27

I've seen a lot of really good people get very badly hurt pursuing a Ph.D. I did get a STEM field Ph.D. but didn't get hurt. For a good and broad view of the problem, buried in D. Knuth's The TeXBook is "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate schoo…

Really appreciate the insights here - I'd love to get your advice on my own situation I've already done a pure math (+business) undergrad from a mid-tier university and have been working as a product manager at a financial services company for 3yrs post undergrad. I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience.…

> I've already done a pure math (+business) undergrad from a mid-tier university and have been working as a product manager at a financial services company for 3yrs post undergrad. I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience.

It would appear that you might pursue something in "financial engineering".

Since you are in the financial industry, you might ask around and grow a network: E.g., ask person A; maybe can get them to suggest person B; tell person B that person A recommended them and ask person B; etc. I.e., apply social networking techniques. E.g., try to get to some people who can outline some of what James Simons did. If you can, talk to Simons. Similarly for various quants and people who create algorithms and code for automatic trading. Look into the programs in financial engineering at Princeton (E. Cinlar), NYU (M. Avellaneda), Columbia (I. Karatzas), and CMU (S. Shreve).

If you want to get into some other field of engineering, then gather some information, meet some people and get some input, and start to pick some fields or one field.

> (i) spend 1 year doing research with a professor nearby then apply (I live close to a major research university)

Maybe. If you can find a good situation and like it, maybe, sure.

I have been suggesting that you start with your own problem and make some progress on it, maybe with a little advice (once I got just three words), and maybe then consider a professor as a official or unofficial mentor or dissertation adviser.

> (ii) apply now and hopefully my work experience can cover for research experience

For a graduate program, in most fields, you are not expected to have experience in research. So don't have to "cover for research experience".

> (iii) Rethink the whole PhD thing and get a professional degree like an MBA (did well on GMAT)

And, with that MBA, what will you do with it? Consulting? Try to work your way up as a C-level guy? Try to do portfolio management or be a venture capitalist?

I'm a former MBA prof -- typically an MBA is not very technical, but, now, especially with some much in computing, being technical can be seen as an advantage. Or, maybe the flip side is, soon all the work that the techies can do will be done and what will be left is the non-technical work. Your guess.

As far as I can see, still need to hustle and/or be lucky to have a good career.

Also, an MBA is expensive while a Ph.D. often costs $0.00 for tuition and might provide a stipend.

> (iv) Just continue to learn on the side and try to use my skills for opportunities

That can be a short-term approach that can lead to a degree later.

If you sense that your background is not good enough to go for a degree, then, sure.

A major cause of my success in grad school is the math I studied independently between my Bachelor's and my Ph.D. program.

In particular, for a Ph.D., will likely have to pass qualifying exams, and you will want to have enough preparation for a path to do that.

> How did you narrow your interests before applying for a PhD?

I attacked some practical problems with applied math and computing. I did this, first, in work in US national security around DC.

> Is it possible to get a masters level pure math education through self study? I've taken until PhD level measure theory.

IIRC at one time the Web site of the math department at Princeton said that the graduate courses were introductions to research by experts in their fields, that no courses were offered for preparation for the qualifying exams, and that students were expected to prepare via independent study. For this, you will need a good undergraduate background.

There is some question how much a student or anyone should attempt via independent study. As a researcher, a lot of independent study is usually just part of the work, but there are seminars, etc. that can help.

Mostly I did well with independent study, but once in statistics I picked a poor book and wasted some time. And, for some subjects, I did get and really needed the good, mature overview of a good course -- else there are too many places along the way where can waste time, get stuck, or go off on a tangent. Also it can be good to be around good researchers and learn their attitudes and approaches: E.g., often researchers go through new material surprisingly quickly and, really, without the thorough mastery often implied as important or even essential in high school and undergraduate school. E.g., in research, for some new material are trying to make use of it, not get a high score on some GRE exams.

Re: How to do a PhD

#55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yup, especially for the most respected research, mathematizing a field. Well, that's debatable :) I can think of plenty of recent systems conferences where the best paper had nothing to do with mathematizing the field.

Sounds like an opportunity for applying some math to systems !!

You'd probably have more luck figuring out what dark matter is.

Re: How to do a PhD

#56
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

re: "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate school he's told to do something original." A lot can change over the last 35 years : http://www.nsf.gov/funding/pgm_summ.jsp?pims_id=5517&from=fu...

In practice, that undergrad research is mostly for biomedical wet lab research under close supervision of a much more senior person? There will be some issues of social maturity that can get in the way of the research. E.g., typically an undergrad student is still under some influence of some of the unfortunate attitudes of some of their high school teachers. E.g., after my junior year, I had a summer job in a bio-ph…

> In practice, that undergrad research is mostly for biomedical wet lab research ... ?

Why would you assume I would bring up wet lab work in the context of mathematics? https://sites.google.com/site/mathreuprograms/

Here's a 20-year-old 20-year retrospective: http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/tanglewood.html

Re: How to do a PhD

#57
post #44
post #27

I've seen a lot of really good people get very badly hurt pursuing a Ph.D. I did get a STEM field Ph.D. but didn't get hurt. For a good and broad view of the problem, buried in D. Knuth's The TeXBook is "The traditional way is to put off all creative aspects until the last part of graduate school. For seventeen or more years, a student is taught examsmanship, then suddenly after passing enough exams in graduate schoo…

Really appreciate the insights here - I'd love to get your advice on my own situation I've already done a pure math (+business) undergrad from a mid-tier university and have been working as a product manager at a financial services company for 3yrs post undergrad. I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience.…

> I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience. .... (I live close to a major research university)

If you know the discipline you want to study, email someone like the Director of Graduate Studies in the department in question. If you don't know the discipline, email someone in either the Graduate School or the College of Engineering, or both, depending on how you school's organized.

Re: How to do a PhD

#59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, that undergrad research is mostly for biomedical wet lab research under close supervision of a much more senior person? There will be some issues of social maturity that can get in the way of the research. E.g., typically an undergrad student is still under some influence of some of the unfortunate attitudes of some of their high school teachers. E.g., after my junior year, I had a summer job in a bio-ph…

> In practice, that undergrad research is mostly for biomedical wet lab research ... ? Why would you assume I would bring up wet lab work in the context of mathematics? https://sites.google.com/site/mathreuprograms/ Here's a 20-year-old 20-year retrospective: http://www.d.umn.edu/~jgallian/tanglewood.html

> Why would you assume I would bring up wet lab work in the context of mathematics?

I was asking.

Okay. Graph theory, etc.

Re: How to do a PhD

#60
post #54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really appreciate the insights here - I'd love to get your advice on my own situation I've already done a pure math (+business) undergrad from a mid-tier university and have been working as a product manager at a financial services company for 3yrs post undergrad. I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience.…

> I've already done a pure math (+business) undergrad from a mid-tier university and have been working as a product manager at a financial services company for 3yrs post undergrad. I've been thinking of getting a PhD in an engineering sub-discipline, but not sure how to go about doing it especially since I have no research experience. It would appear that you might pursue something in "financial engineering". Since y…

Wow, thank you so much for the comprehensive response! This is the reason I love HN. Will definitely take this advice to heart and apply it today.

Thanks!

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