Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX • Hacker News Board

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#51

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 1:20 PM UTC

x5n1 wrote: post #38

zyxley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember the speed differentials involved here. Landing speed for large passenger jets is fast . Picture a 5-pound drone hitting a stationary plane at 250 miles per hour and ask if the damage would be "negligible".

Would not expect it to be any worse than a bird strike, which I hear are common enough. Eventually the firmware of the drone would know to avoid airplanes at all cost and perhaps have some sort of equipment in there to limit them ever flying close to airplanes. The regulation should ideally force this, for drones to have sensors and firmware to avoid airplanes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike

Bird strikes are bad enough. And lots of efforts made to lure birds away from airports.

Consider if you loaded the drone into a cannon and fired it at a stationary airplane, hitting at 250MPH. That's 366 feet per second. Like a low-velocity bullet. Into an aluminum airframe. A BB going that speed will puncture a pop can. A 5lb drone going that speed may puncture the skin of an airplane?

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#52

Post by StringyBob » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #50

StringyBob wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't help of thinking of the foam strike causing the Columbia space shuttle disaster "Investigators into the Columbia accident have estimated that the dislodged foam was about 19 by 11.5 by 5.5 inches (48 by 29 by 14 cm), weighed about 26.7 ounces, or 1.7 lb (0.75 kg) and impacted the Shuttle at nearly 530 mph (850 km/h). For the sake of a rough comparison, this block of foam would be about the same size and weight…

That report bothers me. How did the foam achieve such a relative velocity? It was part of the Shuttle; it dislodged; it hit the shuttle further along. Does the report mean "impacted the Shuttle while both were travelling at nearly 530"?

The shuttle was faster than mach 2 (and accelerating) at time of impact - I presume the foam had decelerated significantly between breaking off and hitting the wing. I suppose you could say the shuttle hit the foam rather than the other way round.

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-disasters/columbia-...

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#53

Post by jjwiseman » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

> WTF is someone doing flying a drone at 5000 feet over downtown LA in the LAX approach path? That drone operator needs to be found and arrested.

Los Angeles has already effectively criminalized flying drones in most of the city. In October 2015 the city passed an ordinance that requires drone pilots to get "express authorization" from all airports within 5 miles[1]. This was done despite the fact that it is stricter than the FAA's requirement/advice for drone pilots to "notify" all airports within 5 miles[2] (Two months later, in December 2015, the FAA published a fact sheet trying to discourage local drone regulations that could result in a patchwork of confusing laws around the country[3].)

In January 2016, LA charged two drone pilots under the new ordinance for flying drones within 5 miles of _heliports_[4], indicating that they considered heliports to be equivalent to airports. The pilots are facing misdemeanor charges that could result in a fine and up to 6 months in jail.

The thing about heliports in LA is that they're everywhere! Probably 80-90% of LA is within 5 miles of a heliport. And not just one--if you wanted to fly your drone in the field next to the Silver Lake Reservoir, you'd probably have to get authorization from 7 or 8 heliports. It is, effectively, a ban.

[1] https://t.co/lst2RzoY5q

[2] http://fromwhereidrone.com/can-you-fly-your-drone-within-5-m...

[3] http://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/UAS_Fact_S...

[4] http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-city-attorney-dr...

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#54

Post by beeboop » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

I could be remembering wrong, but I believe the last time I checked, the FAA required people operating RC planes/quadcopters to maintain a physical line of sight to their machine, with the implication being you need to do so to remain in control of the machine. A quadcopter a mile away is definitely outside controllable line of sight, and this guy should be getting questioned by the FAA.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#55

Post by Animats » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

jjwiseman wrote: post #53

Animats wrote: post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

> WTF is someone doing flying a drone at 5000 feet over downtown LA in the LAX approach path? That drone operator needs to be found and arrested. Los Angeles has already effectively criminalized flying drones in most of the city. In October 2015 the city passed an ordinance that requires drone pilots to get "express authorization" from all airports within 5 miles[1]. This was done despite the fact that it is stricter…

The FAA will sometimes let you fly a drone in controlled airspace if you get a transponder (yes, there are tiny ones for drones) and ask for a clearance. Now you're in the airspace system, visible to everybody else, and in contact with air traffic control. That's the right way to do it if you're making a movie, reporting news, or just getting pictures of real estate.

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#56

Post by hanniabu » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

MaxScheiber wrote: post #24

hanniabu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody know what the protocol is in the event of a blown out windshield/windscreen? Would the pilots be sucked out even at a low altitude such as 5k feet? Whether they are our aren't, how will the plane be landed?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390

That is damn impressive on both pilot's accounts, thanks for the link

Re: Lufthansa jet and drone nearly collide near LAX

#57

Post by ChuckMcM » Sat, Mar 19, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #5

Yesterday, we had this article on YC [1], from some economist at the anti-regulation Mercatus Institute, claiming that a drone strike was very, very unlikely. That guy assumed that drones are distributed randomly across airspace. In practice, they tend to be near where people live, which means cities and airports. I posted the FAA's list of drone sightings near LAX yesterday. Today, this. The pilot of the aircraft, a…

So here is a more interesting question. If the drone was actually 200' away from the Airbus A380 then it would have been un-flyable in the jet wash / vortices once the plane passed. There is a pretty good chance that the drone would be ripped apart by those forces. But we don't have a companion drone debris story, perhaps it was over the ocean?