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AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

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Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#51
post #24
post #3

Impressive work by Google research team. I'm both impressed and scared. This is our Deep Blue moment folks. a history is made.

Give credit where credit is due. This is DeepMind's research, and Google acquired them in 2014. Of course, Google gave them a lot of resources to train AlphaGo. But let's not bury the subsidiary, or I guess they would both be subs to Alphabet now making the two even less related.

DeepMind is part of Google.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#52
Once again, I am so glad that I caught this on the live-stream because it will be in the history books. The implications of these games are absolutely tremendous. Consider GO: it is a game of sophisticated intuition. We have arguably created something that beats the human brain in its own arena, although the brain and AlphaGO do not use the same underlying mechanisms. And this is the supervised model. Once unsupervised learning begins to blossom we will witness something that is as significant as the emergence of life itself.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#53
post #23

I really like the moments when Alpha-Go would play a move and the commentators would look stunned and go silent for a 1-2 seconds. "That was an unexpected move", they would say.

In game 2 there was a point where Michael Redmond seemed to do a triple take and couldn't believe the move AlphaGo played.

Yeah they seem to forget that Alpha-Go is looking deep into the future. I have not read the Nature paper but I assume it's playing out possible moves way into the future.

At some point it figured that the Ko fight at the bottom was already won. Hence that white move at the top which nobody saw coming.

Another interesting moment was when Michael Redmond said "A human would typically not spend too much time thinking on this obvious move". This was the move on the right-hand side somewhere. What this tells me is that human players rush through some moves because they seem obvious but since Alpha-Go is a machine, it does not care about obvious and non-obvious. It's calculating the entire board through to the end and is not interested in "local fights".

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#54
post #33

What happens if you give the human player a handicap? I wonder if the games are really as close as the commentators say, or if it's just a quirk of the MCST algorithm.

The great go champion Otake Hideo famously said that if he were to play go against God Himself, he would take only a three stone handicap, and if his life depended on it, he would take four. Alphago's not perfect, but it would still be very interesting to watch such a handicapped game.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#55
post #31

It's important to remember that this is an accomplishment of humanity, not a defeat. By constructing this AI, we are simply creating another tool for advancing our state of being. (or something like that)

It is not a tool if you can't control it. Politicians fool countries delivering empty promises about better health, education and security. A supraintelligent AI could promise making humans rich, healthy and powerful, to then break its promise and dominate the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_box

Well, it would have to have a motivation to do so. Evolution has put complex motivations into human beings for billions of years, self preservation being chief among them. Even if we put motivation for self preservation into an AI, we might not do as well as nature did, leaving the AI open to self destruction or shutdown by humans - simply because the AI has no motivation not to allow humans to turn it off. Human designers would do well to ensure that no super intelligent AI has any motivation for self preservation.

Basically, why would an AI want to dominate the world? Humans would have to both very stupidly give the AI values that encourage it to dominate the world and very luckily (or unluckily) give it values that actually converge to a horrible outcome against human intentions by random chance (since the AI designers certainly won't be tuning the value set for that outcome).

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#56
post #37

I am really curious about the reviews from An Youngil 8p and Myungwan Kim 9p. The commentary by Redmond always tend to leave something to be desired.

Myungwan Kim 9p and Cho Hyeyeon 9p's commentary on the American Go Association YouTube channel: Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZugVil2v4w Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitoPhtGWJQ Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyVB4Nm9ac

Thanks, jonah!

I recall Andrew mentioning that Myungwan will be back to comment games 4 and 5?

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#57
In a recent interview [1], Hassabis (DeepMind founder) said they'd try training AlphaGo from scratch next, so it learns from first principles. Without the bootstrapping step of "learn from a database of human games", which introduce human prejudice.

As a Go player, I'm really excited to see what kind of play will come from that!

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/10/11192774/demis-hassabis-in...

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#58
post #31

It's important to remember that this is an accomplishment of humanity, not a defeat. By constructing this AI, we are simply creating another tool for advancing our state of being. (or something like that)

It is not a tool if you can't control it. Politicians fool countries delivering empty promises about better health, education and security. A supraintelligent AI could promise making humans rich, healthy and powerful, to then break its promise and dominate the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_box

Do you feel guilty when you break your promise against your cat? Do you even think for a nanosecond if it's ethical to lie to it?

Of course, a cat is not conscious. But compared to an AI, we might also be considered pretty low consciousness beings, or at least beings in front of which you don't justify yourself.

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In game 2 there was a point where Michael Redmond seemed to do a triple take and couldn't believe the move AlphaGo played.

Yeah they seem to forget that Alpha-Go is looking deep into the future. I have not read the Nature paper but I assume it's playing out possible moves way into the future. At some point it figured that the Ko fight at the bottom was already won. Hence that white move at the top which nobody saw coming. Another interesting moment was when Michael Redmond said "A human would typically not spend too much time thinking on…

> I have not read the Nature paper but I assume it's playing out all possible moves.

To some relatively small depth, right? I hear the estimate that all possible moves in a Go game probably can't be physically represented in the universe (unless we learn much more about the structure of games' evolution).

Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol 3-0 [video]

#60

Super interesting to watch this unfold. So what game should AI tackle next? I've heard imperfect information games are harder for AI...would the AlphaGo approach not work well for these?

One perfect-information game that's at least as hard: constructive mathematics. (Proof assistants even give it a sort of videogame-style UI.) I've been wondering about some kind of neural net for ranking the 'moves' coupled with the usual proof search.

I don't know much about Go but I'm guessing general proof automation would be many, many orders of magnitudes harder. The branching factor is huge (you can apply any theorem you want to the current goal and go down a bad path) and knowing if you're on the right track to finish a proof isn't obvious.
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