High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters • Hacker News Board

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#51

Post by marktangotango » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:43 PM UTC

I recently found myself in a stale role, and hence I've been job searching lately, so I have recent experience. From my anecdotal experience, the local job market is hot for my skill set, so I'm looking for a 10% raise. I've gotten 3 offers from 3 companies. Two would not come up to my required salary so I walked. The third came up, but it was a W2 at a contracting shop, and wasn't too appealing for a couple of reasons. So I passed on that as well. I still get pinged multiple times per week, sometimes for the same job at the same company I've already turned down, which I find a bit amusing.

Now I'm continueing the search, but openly talk about what I'm looking for salary wise, I've wasted quiet a lot of my own time this past month.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#52

Post by legohead » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #17

epimetheus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I copied and pasted the link into a private window (Firefox) and it worked ok, just FYI for anybody that wants to read it like I did. Searching for title and clicking through Google didn't do it for me this time.

Didn't work for me. Neither did the google link thing. Wonder what's going on here. :(

Neither did the browser extension "Wait! Google sent me." which was built just for these paywall sites.

It looks like Google stopped punishing journalist sites that do this, or the sites don't care anymore.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#53

Post by SwellJoe » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

How old are you?

I think something often unsaid in conversations about stuff like this is that ageism is rampant in the tech sector. I haven't experienced it first-hand (and I'm probably just now approaching the age where it might be a factor, and I haven't looked for a full-time job in a couple of decades), but I know several folks who have. Even when they've been willing to take lower salaries, when applying for startups, in particular, older folks often get passed over. It gets called things like "cultural fit", etc.

But, the thing is, we're talking about a "low six-figure salary" here, which is not that high for engineering work. In fact, in many markets, it's the baseline for anyone with more than a couple of years experience. I can't believe salary is the primary motivating factor, if it is a reasonable salary, well within the bounds of expected pay for people with experience.

I haven't been in the job market since I was quite young (I've run my own companies since my 20s, with some contract work along the way to make ends meet), but, I know my dad experienced this to some degree; and he was an engineer in an industry that was not nearly as ageist as high tech fields often are (he worked in the oil and gas industry). His salary climbed through his 30s and 40s, and then finding work became more difficult in his 50s, and he retired early partly due to health issues, but also because of difficulty finding good long-term work.

I don't think salary is the only factor here, especially given that most of the folks I know who've experienced this aren't insisting on making more than their peers doing the same work. The people motivated by money tend to rise up to management roles. The engineers who are driven by the desire to build things just want to make a decent salary while being in an environment where they get to build things. The most productive software engineer I think I've ever worked with was in his late 50s, and was making less than a number of developers in the company (but he had a private office and a few other perks that no one else got, and got to work on stuff that excited him, so he seemed reasonably content).

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#54

Post by fweespeech » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #35

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

Posting the salary range for the position solves this problem.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#55

Post by gedy » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:49 PM UTC

cushychicken wrote: post #22

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

I've tried that (nicely), but it backfires too. Some companies are either old school or clueless on what to offer and have treated me pretty badly and called off interviewing further well into interviewing due not telling them that. E.g. "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary".

I realize those places were likely toxic, but it can be never-wracking to someone who needs a job.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#56

Post by gedy » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

ryguytilidie wrote: post #40

cushychicken wrote: post #22

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

Recruiter here. I think: "The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter." is pretty simplistic and naive. You simply have to figure out how to get what you want. If you want 180 and currently make 140 and a recruiter asks what you make, just say something like "my expectation for my next role is around 180". You say that and you both probably get what you want and save…

Thanks for the insight. Though most of your peers I've dealt with only frame it as "what's your current salary" not expectations.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#57

Post by jrs235 » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #55

cushychicken wrote: post #22

The moral of the story: never, never, NEVER answer questions about your salary to a recruiter. It firmly pigeonholes your next salary to your current one, instead of the value you bring to a company. Patrick MacKenzie's article on salary negotiations is excellent (I would maybe even say "required") reading on the subject.

I've tried that (nicely), but it backfires too. Some companies are either old school or clueless on what to offer and have treated me pretty badly and called off interviewing further well into interviewing due not telling them that. E.g. "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". I realize those places were likely toxic, but it can be never-wracking to someone who needs a job.

"We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary".

If I heard that and felt I was going to walk away anyway, I'd be tempted to throw back "How much do you make?" And watch to see if they squirm to not share.

If they came back with "what I make has nothing to do with this position you're being interviewed for" come back with "then neither does my previous salaries, if they do then I need to know how much other folks in other positions in this company make so I can gauge whether I think this company will still be here in the future."

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#58

Post by nicholasjarnold » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #28

maxsilver wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Almost everywhere in the Midwest, except Chicago perhaps. Unless your remote working, low cost of living doesn't come without a big catch.

No, it's Chicago too, unless you're working on low-latency finance stuff.

Untrue. I lived and worked as a software engineer in Chicago (downtown) for a number of years before moving westward. Most mid-career developers I knew there were comfortably in the 100's and only one worked at the CME ('finance stuff', in C++).

It boils down to simple economic rules. If you're good at developing software, there aren't a lot of people like you looking for a job and the market has a high demand for your skill then you are probably doing something wrong if you're not earning well into the 100's or higher (if that is what you're trying to optimize for).

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#59

Post by dba7dba » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

This is why for every thing I learn in IT/computer, I angle for a skill that I can use in freelance or 1-person company. Not interested in some proprietary skill that requires expensive hardware to stay current. Such as Cisco or storage stuff.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#60

Post by quaffapint » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #23

> After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money (3x mean personal income in the US, and ~1.75x mean HHI, give or take), but I'd expect most senior folks in any engineering field to be in the mid 100k range if not pushing 185ish. > Time and again, h…

Around here in the mid-atlantic states I know that's the norm - and actually can be lower than that. It's not until you start managing teams do you get near the lower mid 100s.