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Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

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Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#51

Post by hkmurakami »

rtkwe wrote: post #42
hkmurakami wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese Twitter tells me that once this station closes, there will be a 40 minute section of the railway that won't have any stops. The line itself will remain operational.

Looking at Google Maps the change won't be terribly drastic in reality [0] unless the station just over 3 km further down the line closes too. For a person walking it's a decent distance but for the rest of the passengers there would be very little change. Of course the same could be said for pretty much any station that closed between there before now. [0] https://goo.gl/maps/cqZBrzvjJJk

Unfortunately my source is second hand as well from a Japanese discussion thread, so my information may be faulty.

One possibility is that the station 3km away is already out of operation (and I do recall someone posting that a nearby station did already shut down).

In either case I think you are right that for 99% of the passenger life will go on as it always has.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#52

Post by drcode »

droithomme wrote: post #47
qrendel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have trouble seeing it this way. The money spent running the train could save or improve many other lives instead. It's heartwarming and all, but consider the other people who are being left to die or suffer malnutrition or some other malady that could have been fixed with the resources used to get this girl to and from school. It could be argued that the hope and inspiration and good feels justify it as a utilitar…

Hopefully with your great compassion for others you will be donating most of your income to stop this malnutrition and suffering in the third world that would otherwise be stopping this girl from getting to school.

Why is grendel responsible for the (potentially) poor financial decisions of Japan Railways?

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#53

Post by jobu »

hkmurakami wrote: post #11
sandworm101 wrote: post #7

Only girl in the village? They are going to close the line when she graduates. Therefore we can surmise there aren't any other younger girls. So much for having a social life. There are parts of Japan where children just aren't around anymore. Towns are becoming extended retirement homes. That's the truly depressing side of this story. At least this is happening today, when the few remaining kids in such situations c…

Generally speaking, the population of Japan is going down and the population of the Greater Tokyo area is going up. Once youth hits college or working age, they disproportionately head for the capitol. But then there's a small counter current where younger (say, 30's) are moving back to their original prefectures as they realize that they might be able to afford a better QoL making less money but also paying much les…

With the country’s record-low birthrate, aging population, and the threat of losing a third of its population by 2060, Japan faces a number of crises...

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few decades. Many European countries have similar problems with low fertility rates, but Japan has the additional disadvantage of being extremely xenophobic. While other countries may be able to bolster their populations with immigrants and refugees it seems unlikely Japan's culture will allow that.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#54

Post by mchaver »

qrendel wrote: post #44
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Lovely story. Hats off to Japan Railways. I'm also happy that The Atlantic/Citylab decided to publish this story. And thanks 'hudibras for submitting it here! They say that it's the money that makes the world turn, and love only keeps it together. It would be easy for the Railways to ignore that girl. There's no economical reason to keep that station open. It's a waste of time and resources. And yet, someone decided…

I have trouble seeing it this way. The money spent running the train could save or improve many other lives instead. It's heartwarming and all, but consider the other people who are being left to die or suffer malnutrition or some other malady that could have been fixed with the resources used to get this girl to and from school. It could be argued that the hope and inspiration and good feels justify it as a utilitar…

I see it more as a neighbor helping a neighbor out in their area of expertise. Train companies are, presumably, good at running trains so the best sort of charity train companies can offer to its customers and potential customers are train services. It is a heartwarming act on top of being good PR. Similar to the way a restaurant or grocery store might donate food or a barber give free haircuts. Of course, they can also donate money, but offering ones skills and time often seem to have a more direct impact.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#55

Post by qrendel »

droithomme wrote: post #47
qrendel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have trouble seeing it this way. The money spent running the train could save or improve many other lives instead. It's heartwarming and all, but consider the other people who are being left to die or suffer malnutrition or some other malady that could have been fixed with the resources used to get this girl to and from school. It could be argued that the hope and inspiration and good feels justify it as a utilitar…

Hopefully with your great compassion for others you will be donating most of your income to stop this malnutrition and suffering in the third world that would otherwise be stopping this girl from getting to school.

I'd hoped it wouldn't need to be stated, but I'm definitely glad they're doing something valuable with the resources. I was just pointing out an alternative reaction to the article. Of course it's far far better than if the money was being spent in a worse way - e.g. funding some irrational government policy to further some incumbent's chances of reelection. (Not living in Japan I'm not aware of a good relevant example from that country.)

I'll skip inundating the thread with some personal defense of whether I'm a hypocrit or not. I agree with what TeMPOral said about it being a positive symbol, and was just pointing out another way that it's a negative one. "We've come a long way but we still have a long way to go" sort of thing.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#56

Post by greggman »

hkmurakami wrote: post #26
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Lovely story. Hats off to Japan Railways. I'm also happy that The Atlantic/Citylab decided to publish this story. And thanks 'hudibras for submitting it here! They say that it's the money that makes the world turn, and love only keeps it together. It would be easy for the Railways to ignore that girl. There's no economical reason to keep that station open. It's a waste of time and resources. And yet, someone decided…

The thing is, they (the headline) say "Japan", but this only happened because it's way out in the countryside where people have a "village mentality" of helping each other out (but the trade off is that everyone sticks their nose in your business). Japan railways itself split into several separate companies upon privatization. This would never happen in Tokyo. As much as we think of the country as being monolithic (i…

You have a vastly different experience and interpretation than me.

First off people will stop during rush hour in Tokyo to help people. Happens all the time. Tokyo is not cold. I've never seen anyone have trouble getting someone to take their picture, ever. I'm not denying your experience but I'm going to claim it's not common.

Second, while it's sad people feel the need to take their own lives it is arguably the height of selfishness to do it by jumping in front of a train and putting out 50k+ people. I see no problem with recognizing that and being annoyed by it. Especially in Japan where putting your problems on someone else is the height of rudeness.

And I'm sorry if you think mothers on strollers aren't a PITA on public transport in a city as busy as Tokyo. That sounds like a fully western (or maybe American POV). F everyone else, I have my needs and F you if they inconvenience hundreds or thousands of people.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#57

Post by evmar »

hkmurakami wrote: post #26
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Lovely story. Hats off to Japan Railways. I'm also happy that The Atlantic/Citylab decided to publish this story. And thanks 'hudibras for submitting it here! They say that it's the money that makes the world turn, and love only keeps it together. It would be easy for the Railways to ignore that girl. There's no economical reason to keep that station open. It's a waste of time and resources. And yet, someone decided…

The thing is, they (the headline) say "Japan", but this only happened because it's way out in the countryside where people have a "village mentality" of helping each other out (but the trade off is that everyone sticks their nose in your business). Japan railways itself split into several separate companies upon privatization. This would never happen in Tokyo. As much as we think of the country as being monolithic (i…

I was in Tokyo (Shibuya) meeting a friend and asked in Japanese a random kid (maybe 17) to help me find the Hachiko statue. He got really excited, ditched his friends, and escorted me all the way there. Similar story once when getting a train from Tokyo out to somewhere more remote -- the lady in the ticket booth said the train was coming soon, took me by the hand, and ran in her high heels to guide me to the proper track.

Whenever I spot tourists lost in my town I do these sorts of things for them, so that I can set their understanding of my entire city from just my one interaction.

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#58

Post by TeMPOraL »

qrendel wrote: post #44
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Lovely story. Hats off to Japan Railways. I'm also happy that The Atlantic/Citylab decided to publish this story. And thanks 'hudibras for submitting it here! They say that it's the money that makes the world turn, and love only keeps it together. It would be easy for the Railways to ignore that girl. There's no economical reason to keep that station open. It's a waste of time and resources. And yet, someone decided…

I have trouble seeing it this way. The money spent running the train could save or improve many other lives instead. It's heartwarming and all, but consider the other people who are being left to die or suffer malnutrition or some other malady that could have been fixed with the resources used to get this girl to and from school. It could be argued that the hope and inspiration and good feels justify it as a utilitar…

Yes, there are many ways this marginal money expenditure could be put to a better use. Most of those scenarios, however, would never happen, because human organizations are nowhere near that efficient. The most likely outcome of closing the station would be the money getting distributed between organizational overhead and bumping up someone's salary a little bit. Or maybe another company project would get finished little faster.

I agree that we should prioritize things and aim for maximum effectiveness of our help. But humans are complex beings - we react to examples and positive stories, which often encourage us to change our behaviors. If seeing positive stories like this can make some people even a little more kind, or inspire them to do some good, then those stories are of great value. And if we can encourage people to do good by praising even somewhat inefficient acts of kindness, maybe the next group will figure out a more cost-effective way. It definitely beats no one being inspired to do anything good at all.

Eliezer once wrote a very interesting article "Purchase Fuzzies and Utilons Separately"[0]. His point was that out of the things we get from helping others - warm fuzzy feelings, status increase and the actual results - "all three of these things—warm fuzzies, status, and expected utilons—can be bought far more efficiently when you buy separately, optimizing for only one thing at a time". I kind of agree with this approach, and I think story is mostly about buying fuzzies, not utilons. Yet we are just humans - we need some fuzzies too.

[0] - http://lesswrong.com/lw/6z/purchase_fuzzies_and_utilons_sepa...

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#59

Post by Animats »

Japan keeps the entire island of Hokkaido running for too few people.[1] The population is dropping rapidly. Most infrastructure is funded nationally, and the rest of the country pays for Hokkaido. Partly because it's only about 12 miles from Russia at the closest point, and Japan doesn't want Russia moving in.

[1] http://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/a03802/

Re: Japan Keeps This Defunct Train Station Running for Just One Passenger

#60

Post by TeMPOraL »

qrendel wrote: post #55
droithomme wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully with your great compassion for others you will be donating most of your income to stop this malnutrition and suffering in the third world that would otherwise be stopping this girl from getting to school.

I'd hoped it wouldn't need to be stated, but I'm definitely glad they're doing something valuable with the resources. I was just pointing out an alternative reaction to the article. Of course it's far far better than if the money was being spent in a worse way - e.g. funding some irrational government policy to further some incumbent's chances of reelection. (Not living in Japan I'm not aware of a good relevant examp…

You have a good point and it is definitely not hypocritical. I addressed it in the response to your comment upthread, but let me do a tl;dr of it here: I came to believe that you simply can't expect 100% efficiency from humans. We're not wired that way. If too much is required from us - like being asked to donate all surplus beyond sustenance level to charity - we simply stop caring at all. On the other hand, a positive emotional nudge can make us care more. Helping effectively means taking into account our own psychological makeup.
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