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Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

money.cnn.com

51–60 of 108 posts

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#51
All of the people here writing about how these people shouldn't have picked non-STEM majors are missing the point entirely.

These people in the article are the population we've got, not the population we want to have; Monday morning quarterbacking is completely useless, as the debt is already accrued. To state it again: this is the population we actually have. They are not technically skilled, but they are educated and heavily indebted. They were told "go to college, get any degree, and you will have success." This was not accurate, and now, we have an entire generation that is suffering.

Student loan debt is smashing the potential of the millenials and is now increasingly seen as a massive burden on their parents and (mostly uncreated, due to insufficient funds) children as well. Large-scale debt relief is mandatory at this point, as all of the money siphoned to debt maintenance is severely limiting the amount of demand that the economy's primary consumers are able to create. Millenials aren't buying homes, aren't having kids, aren't buying cars, aren't able to put their parents into nursing homes, etc.

The parents of the millenials typically have some wealth that can be extracted, and so, it's on the chopping block. This is why loans have cosigners-- so that their bank accounts can be emptied, too.

Debt slavery is the reality we live in, and predictably, debtors parents aren't thrilled that their retirement is being siphoned away by their children's debt.

As I said, this debt is a massive drag on the economy, and debt relief is mandatory. Unfortunately, there's not so much going on politically right now, so I think that a mass student debt boycott is a better decision. It's unlikely that the lenders will be bankrupted, but it'll send a message at least. Sure, they'll ruin everyone's credit and dock people's wages, but that can only be sustained until there's white riots due to poverty. And it'll probably take riots to end this debt slavery-- it takes riots to fix things in a broken country.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#52
It is important to know and not perpetuate the myths about student loans...

-Federally guaranteed student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy (it is just a different standard than other debts); and

-Federal plus loans (a type of educational loan for parents) can also be discharged, not just through bankruptcy but also directly through the US Department of Education, for example one program is for permanent and total disability, and with the aging population more and more parents with $100,000's in loans for their kids will be eligible for this discharge.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#53
post #29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you can't get out of student loan debt through bankruptcy, they're at basically no risk. It might take them your entire lifetime to collect, but they'll get it eventually unless you happen to kill yourself at a young age.

What happens if you stop living in the US? (I realize very few people would do this, but I'm curious)

If you leave the US, you don't stop being a US Citizen unless you revoke your citizenship. And most nations won't allow you to become a citizen if you have foreign debts.

Also, expect to see more of these types of rules, since many student loans are backed by US Government entities: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/12/...

> A new enforcement provision passed by Congress and signed into law earlier this month allows the government to revoke the passports of seriously delinquent tax scofflaws — people who owe more than $50,000 to Uncle Sam.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#56
post #14
post #6

Never cosign a loan. There is one reason that lenders required a co-signer -- they know that the borrower is high risk for defaulting. If you can't afford or didn't save for college, go to a cheaper school. In-state tuition and fees at most state universities is more than it used to be but still generally under $10K a year. There is no reason to go into six-digit debt for an undergraduate degee. With very few excepti…

Given that you can't get out of student loan debt through bankruptcy, they're at basically no risk. It might take them your entire lifetime to collect, but they'll get it eventually unless you happen to kill yourself at a young age.

>Given that you can't get out of student loan debt through bankruptcy...

Yes you can, that is a myth perpetuated by lenders. And for Plus loans there are multiple programs available for parents to discharge their loans directly with the US Dept of Education, and as the baby boomers continue to age more and more will qualify for discharges.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#57

It is important to know and not perpetuate the myths about student loans... -Federally guaranteed student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy (it is just a different standard than other debts); and -Federal plus loans (a type of educational loan for parents) can also be discharged, not just through bankruptcy but also directly through the US Department of Education, for example one program is for permanent and tota…

> -Federally guaranteed student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy (it is just a different standard than other debts)

As a practical matter, it is not dischargeable. The standard is nearly impossible to meet.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#58

I was a writer for Wired Magazine for three years and never took a single class in journalism, and nothing beyond the required english classes in college. I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. For-profit schools like the University of Phoenix get a lot of negative press, but how about these little known colleges referenced…

>I think we need to do more to help educate parents and prospective students that in most cases a college degree is next to worthless. Do you have a source for this? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the exact opposite. [0] >Most psych/business majors would be better served working their way up through the ranks. Source? Again and again, people only seem to look at the cost of education like education is a product…

Here's a source that shows a correlation between ice cream sales and homicides: (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/07/09/warm_weather_hom...). I'm sure if we unpacked the BLS data you cite we'd also see a correlation between higher earners coming from intact families and the possession of other forms of social capital in addition to a degree. The question is which is the dominant driver?

As for the citations you requested, I'd point to the raft of sob stories that have been published over the last few years which feature unfortunate stories of people six figures in debt, but working jobs that require no training. It could be these are cherry-picked examples to help advance a faulty narrative (e.g. http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html), but to the extent they reflect a real problem we should examine the broken logic that created it.

So why would I suggest anyone go to a state school? As I mentioned in the last paragraph of my previous post, since WWII we've become more credential-focused and made a BA the bare minimum for many professional career paths——something that should be remedied in my opinion, but the reality.

You suggest the commodification of education is the problem—I'd argue the problem is that we don't treat college enough like a product. Because we treat it like a rite of passage for young adults, and subsidize it heavily, you have horrible colleges offering degrees at the same price as elite schools. Instead of analytically valuing the degree based on the quality of the education offered, we treat degrees as fungible goods and splurge emotionally to obtain them.

In many parts of America you need a car to participate in the workforce. We don't offer subsidies so everyone can go out and buy a Bently.

If you can afford college, go, it's a great, mind-expanding experience for a young mind. It is a good rite of passage into adulthood in the US, but so is joining the military or going on a religious mission. So is night school after you've found a career path you like, but need further education to advance in.

I don't understand the reflexive desire to turn the protection of 3rd rate colleges into a cause célèbre.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#59
post #36

The real solution to this is to open up some kind of bond market for majors. Bundle up a bunch of student loans by major and create a partly public partly private debt obligations. Schools have far too much incentive to lie about the value of different degrees. Parents and high school advisors don't have the necessary information. A market device would give students the feedback they need to plan their futures. Plus…

There is already a lot of information available about the labor market in general, and colleges are also required to provide gainful employment statistics for graduates. Despite this, it seems that many students make poor decisions, probably for more subtle reasons (easy availability of loans, wanting to experience college, wanting a gap between school and work, etc).

Securitizing student loans by major and having a liquid market for the securities is an interesting idea, but its hard for me to imagine that the information provided would have any impact on this problem. If students, counselors, etc already ignore the plentiful labor market statistics available, a I'm sure they'll have no trouble ignoring a proxy for those statistics.

Re: Our sons' student debt is delaying our retirement

#60
I don't want to be harsh but the reality is either you can afford to try a very hard path such as "bachelor's degree in journalism and media studies." where it seems competencies don't really matter or you push your kids to study something where the odds of finding a jobs are higher.

Unfortunately it seems like, journalism, acting, professional sports is not about talent but about who you meet and when :/

May be I'm a pessimist but that's how I feel about certain jobs/career paths.

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