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The best icon is a text label

thomasbyttebier.be

51–60 of 213 posts

Re: The best icon is a text label

#51

I remember getting into a debate about this subject with a self-described UI expert. It was part enlightening and part frustrating. He failed to see the point that so many of his ideas were US-centric, and didn't make sense in any context outside of English-speaking languages, and to be honest, they barely made sense in English. The author brings up Gmail, which has an icon for "archive" that makes zero sense no matt…

Here's one argument you can use against icon advocates: "The ancient Egyptians already tried hieroglyphics. They didn't work. What makes you think they will this time?"

Still waiting for a good answer to this one. When someone does successfully counter it, I imagine the rebuttal will involve Chinese pictograms or something else that has worked well for a while but isn't likely to survive the next thousand years.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#52
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always think "Am I turning into a stereotypical old person? Unable to use a computer?" I always feel like I'm just out of touch.

I guess we gain perspective. We have the stereotype of old people being cranky and stupid (like I come from the era of cd-rom cupholder jokes, faxing images of floppies, etc.), but probably there were intelligent old people out there telling us about missing context and we didn't listen or by its nature what they had to say couldn't get press or something.

CD-roms and disc media don't change for years, though. Popular apps change their interfaces every few months, it seems, and don't come with a manual. Learning the basics of a computer is more or less once-and-done, whereas keeping up with idiot designers is a constant task and a huge pain in the ass even when you're trying. And I say all this as a college student, which makes me one of the prime demographics for most of these apps.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#53

I remember getting into a debate about this subject with a self-described UI expert. It was part enlightening and part frustrating. He failed to see the point that so many of his ideas were US-centric, and didn't make sense in any context outside of English-speaking languages, and to be honest, they barely made sense in English. The author brings up Gmail, which has an icon for "archive" that makes zero sense no matt…

Here's one argument you can use against icon advocates: "The ancient Egyptians already tried hieroglyphics. They didn't work. What makes you think they will this time?" Still waiting for a good answer to this one. When someone does successfully counter it, I imagine the rebuttal will involve Chinese pictograms or something else that has worked well for a while but isn't likely to survive the next thousand years.

(a) they're not pictograms and (b) hieroglyphs worked for thousands of years.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#54

If you decide to use icons, offer a hover-tooltip. Even if you decide to use a textual button, offer a hover tooltip if there's a keyboard shortcut. (Hello phpStorm, I'm looking at YOU!)

This doesn't work for touch-based devices, unfortunately.

In Android apps you can long-press action-bar icons to get a tooltip -- assuming the developer provided one.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#56
post #42
post #8

For someone who follows HN somewhat, I really don't keep up on any current cool-and-hyped stuff. I'll just see websites become more and more useless with three-stripe icons for menus and then just random mysterious icons, and I'll tell myself that that no doubt these no-context meaningless icons must be derived from whatever iphones are doing this week.

I agree on the more and more useless progress of web interface design. The hamburger icon (three-strip icon as you call it) being particularly egregious, akin to the travesty that is the 'start' button on windows. However, to be fair, Apple designers are very much against this trend as well (not to defend the recent downturn in Apple UX design). I recommend this 2014 WWDC talk on UX[1]. The entire talk is worth watch…

Calling the start button a travesty is ridiculous. The start menu is a useful and appropriate menu where programs and other shortcuts are listed that nobody really has a problem with outside contrived complaints on the internet that were made for the sake of complaining. The real travesty was the abrasive and confusing replacement they made for it in Windows 8.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one argument you can use against icon advocates: "The ancient Egyptians already tried hieroglyphics. They didn't work. What makes you think they will this time?" Still waiting for a good answer to this one. When someone does successfully counter it, I imagine the rebuttal will involve Chinese pictograms or something else that has worked well for a while but isn't likely to survive the next thousand years.

(a) they're not pictograms and (b) hieroglyphs worked for thousands of years.

(a) Yes, they are (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classificati...).

(b) So why'd the Egyptians stop using them? What makes them right for today's needs?

Re: The best icon is a text label

#58

> Don’t use an icon if its meaning isn’t a 100% clear to everyone. When in doubt, skip the icon. Reside to simple copy. A text label is always clearer. The article is misguided, in that it assumes that the meaning of an icon only exists in the lines/color/visual form of the icon. Icons are visual language . You have to teach the user what the icon means. Either the user has seen the icon before (such as in airports),…

How invested is the user in your app? If this is an enterprise scenario and your user makes a living using your app he'd probably be willing to expend the time to learn the meaning of your icons, and eventually he will be more productive for having done so.

In a consumer app, especially one which the user only uses occasionally the bar is much higher, so your icons should be much more obvious, because the user will just delete your app if he can't figure out your icons.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#59

I remember getting into a debate about this subject with a self-described UI expert. It was part enlightening and part frustrating. He failed to see the point that so many of his ideas were US-centric, and didn't make sense in any context outside of English-speaking languages, and to be honest, they barely made sense in English. The author brings up Gmail, which has an icon for "archive" that makes zero sense no matt…

> "UI, in my opinion, doesn't mean "pretty," it means "usable," which is sort of implied by U meaning "user.""

In frontend land this is often the distinction between UI vs. UX. UX means usability, UI is the more aesthetic side of the exercise, though of course there is considerable overlap.

Part of the issue - at least from my corner of the industry in mobile app dev - is that a lot of good UI designers have renamed themselves UX designers - because UX designers are in greater demand - but are poorly qualified to actually assess and design for usability.

There are also more and more designers crossing over from other design disciplines - graphics designers and print designers are often transitioning to UX design and the results are not always good. To some degree they can bring fresh ideas to the table, but often it results in a lot of designs that aren't competent at a usability level.

> "If a significant portion of your user-base is computer illiterate, which will often be the default, it does well to UI to the lowest common denominator."

I agree with the gist of what you're saying - but I think there needs to be a bit more nuance here.

We're no longer in the 90s, the userbase for most websites and apps largely are not computer illiterate. They are in fact quite technically savvy overall - the issue isn't that your users are technologically ignorant, it's that they're not skilled in your software.

If you look at the modern smartphone user they have a lot of learned expectations and behaviors and they know full well how everything works. The issue comes only when you try to break the established knowledge and do your own thing - which is exactly what the blog post here is about, icons that aren't universally established and have vague meaning to non-experts (and even some experts).

One of the hardest things as frontend people is retaining the first-time-user mindset. You use your own software day in and day out and become experts at it, and your designs and considerations start swimming around that - you are more inclined to build power-user features and implement power-user shortcuts, and you gradually lose the ability to assess your own product from the perspective of a new (or even old, but irregular) user.

The issue isn't that people are technologically illiterate, but that they are not specialists in a very particular expert-user UI you may have designed.

This is made worse when designers start openly egging competitors' UIs, so now not only are you pursuing a confusingly non-standard UI, but this non-standardness starts becoming a meme in your specific niche.

The distinction is important IMO - with the exception of a few demographics (retirees?) it's actually pretty safe now to expect a reasonable amount of tech savvy from your users, but you have to recognize what you think is universal trained user behavior vs. actually widespread user behavior.

Re: The best icon is a text label

#60
I agree. Whenever the option to change icons to text labels is available, I will use it. It's a shame that Apple's finder is ostensibly shit when it comes to text label support. No forward, no change/shadow when `pressed`, etc. It's been maddening trying to use most websites these days that load 20MB of javascript and abstract their interface elements behind incomprehensible picons and boxes.

http://i.imgur.com/YyOYqxV.png

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