The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam • Hacker News Board

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#51

Post by ameen » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:45 AM UTC

Reform in India is the hardest thing ever. Corruption is soaked in our veins. In some states a birth certificate itself is modified (to start school early). Almost every aspect of any government is scam ridden, at any given time there can be a multitude of scams in progress and eye-wash investigations as well.

The common man foots the bill, and pays blood money to survive. The recent floods in Chennai (a metropolitan city) was because of corruption and encroachment of lake beds, marshland, improper management of reservoirs, blocked canals, etc and lead to the death of an unknown number (~350) of individuals.

There was a huge anti-corruption drive a couple years back which culminated in a new political party (AAP) which won Delhi elections, and now they've been blocked from working because of ludicrous reasons.

The right-wing is alive and well, and any criticism/investigations of parties that are part of it is met with huge protests and name calling.

It gets really silly and petty, and one has to wonder if most of us are really educated (morally, ethically and in things that matter) other than being able to string together sentences in a foreign language or copy-pasting from elsewhere.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#52

Post by tedks » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:52 AM UTC

praxulus wrote: post #34

aianus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

People don't get speeding tickets for going with the flow of traffic. And no, it really isn't unsafe to go at the speed limit. Driving at 20mph on a highway can cause problems, but going 10-15mph slower than traffic in the rightmost lane is not going to cause any accidents.

Unless you're black, or maybe also a muslim, or a sikh wearing a turban, or a native american. Unless the cop on that stretch has a quota to fill. Unless you're unlucky.

Power is just as capricious, wherever you are in the world. People that select to be in positions of power are rarely the kind of people who can be trusted to always execute that power honestly.

I see where the comment parent is coming from.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#53

Post by WaylonKenning » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:53 AM UTC

random_coder wrote: post #23

As an Indian I often wonder, the real question is not why India is so corrupt(esp. at the lower levels of bureaucracy), rather how come certain countries have zero corruption at those levels? Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about human nature.

As a New Zealander, any form of corruption is unacceptable. It's just not in the DNA of being a good New Zealander to be corrupt. Therefore, there's great social pressure to not be corrupt. Being corrupt is not celebrated, and I wouldn't show off or discuss it here.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#54

Post by lmm » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:56 AM UTC

random_coder wrote: post #23

As an Indian I often wonder, the real question is not why India is so corrupt(esp. at the lower levels of bureaucracy), rather how come certain countries have zero corruption at those levels? Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about human nature.

One interesting thing I saw in toy models is that a small number of incorruptible people (5% or less) can make it very dangerous to be corrupt. As corruption falls there's then a feedback spiral, because most people will report corruption if they're not corrupt themselves.

You definitely need a few people who are weird and unreasonable to start it off though. Have you seen the movie Serpico? I thought that gave a good portrayal of how odd and antisocial the people who cause that kind of change often are (and the real story was more so e.g. his marriage collapsed as part of the process). If we're going to be really speculative, maybe it takes an individualistic culture to even have that kind of personality?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#55

Post by simonh » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 9:59 AM UTC

aianus wrote: post #29

frozenport wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Russians are terrified of the police, because they know that they can ask for a `bribe` even if you haven't done anything wrong. The problem with corrupt isn't that the rules benefit one party or another, rather that they are unpredictable.

In Canada everybody speeds all the time. In fact, it would be unsafe not to speed on the 401 as you'd be driving considerably slower than everyone else. So the enforcement randomness is the same, it's just the penalties are stiffer and longer-lasting.

Ah the 'whatoubout' defence. Don't bother addressing the issue of pervasive, ingrained corruption institutionalised into daily life in country X, 'whatabout' speeding in Canada?

My wife is from a country with ingrained corruption and her sister's husband is a police officer. Her cousin works at a notary's office, an institution who's only purpose is systematic corruption, and her husband narrowly escaped prison in a finance scandal at a company he ran through means that shall we say were less than ethical. Until you experience life in a place like that, you just can't really imagine what it's actually like.

There's a world of difference between a country ruled by laws in which there is some corruption, and a country that is ruled by corruption in which there are some laws.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#56

Post by ameen » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:04 AM UTC

maindrive wrote: post #49

Can't expect much from a British newspaper. No country is best its just the media gimmick that creates the perception. Till yesterday people were hating Russia and Putin, now all know who created ISIS. I just won’t go into numbers of rapes, kidnaps, murders, racism that happens in Britain (proportion wise for dummies).

Deflection isn't really a solution. Never be dismissive, there's always some truth (the death tally in this case) we can get better.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#57

Post by meowface » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:08 AM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #33

rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

> It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Not that hard. Small time corruption might not be so pervasive, but there are judges who take bribes to send kids to private jails.

There is corruption all over the world, including in the US, yes. But the prevalence and severity of it in the US is much lower than in countries like India and Russia. There are some unethical, crooked judges in the US, but there are probably 10x as many in India.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#58

Post by MrPatan » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:13 AM UTC

aianus wrote: post #17

rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

I congratulate you on your relevant choice of username.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#59

Post by CamperBob2 » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:15 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #18

aianus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Romania and Vietnam, you learn to appreciate the efficiency of just paying the bribe and getting on with your life. For example, if I get caught speeding I can bribe a cop for like $20 in Eastern Europe or Asia versus losing $1000s in Canada between fines and insurance premium increases. I personally find it a lot less stressful than living in Canada where every time I see a cop I get a little adrenal…

Have you considered not speeding? It also helps avoid the fines.

You sound white.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#60

Post by 1ris » Fri, Dec 18, 2015, 10:16 AM UTC

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #32

nl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered not speeding? It also helps avoid the fines.

There are traffic scenarios where it's too dangerous to stick with the legal speed limits.

This does not deserve to be downvoted. Driving too slow is as dangerous as driving to fast, or more dangerous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve