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Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#51

Post by isolate »

illumen wrote: post #44
isolate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not limiting free speech unless the government is asking for or compelling it. https://xkcd.com/1357/

The freedom of speech applies when other people than the government are calling for it to be stopped. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights for example does not say "it only applies to when a government are restricting those rights". Article 19 1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference. 2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek…

Only the government can provide legal rights. Human rights are ideals, not actual things.

Regardless, the real point is that property rights trump free speech rights. You can't come over to my house and say whatever you want, because it's private. And I'm pretty sure the UN DoHR says the same thing.

And further, given the leftist thing that it is, I'd bet dollars to donuts that the UN DoHR also says people have the right not to be on the receiving end of speech that incites violence towards them, a.k.a. hate speech. So... property rights > hate speech rights > free speech rights.

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#52

Post by Grue3 »

Tomte wrote: post #6
trav4225 wrote: post #2

Free speech, European style.

Free speech, the correct way. In my opinion, of course. (The following is not so much directed at you; I don't know you, after all. It's just that I need to rant, as always when Americans lecture us on free speech. "You" is not the personal you, but "you Americans on web forums") Don't mistake your version of free speech for a canonical implementation. Keep your hate speech and school shootings, be proud of it, and b…

>We just happen to live in peace and don't need or want your constant superiority complex in our face.

Yeah, well, the only reason you live in peace is because of Americans with their free speech and school schootings, and the Soviets with their communism. We all saw what happens when Europe is left to its own devices.

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#53

Post by orangecat »

isolate wrote: post #51
illumen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedom of speech applies when other people than the government are calling for it to be stopped. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights for example does not say "it only applies to when a government are restricting those rights". Article 19 1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference. 2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek…

Only the government can provide legal rights. Human rights are ideals, not actual things. Regardless, the real point is that property rights trump free speech rights. You can't come over to my house and say whatever you want, because it's private. And I'm pretty sure the UN DoHR says the same thing. And further, given the leftist thing that it is, I'd bet dollars to donuts that the UN DoHR also says people have the r…

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the UN DoHR also says people have the right not to be on the receiving end of speech that incites violence towards them

Article 12 prohibits "attacks" against "honour and reputation", which is vague enough to justify all sorts of "hate speech" prohibitions. (And ridiculous libel laws like in the UK).

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#54

Post by orangecat »

legulere wrote: post #36
trav4225 wrote: post #2

Free speech, European style.

Which is just free speech. Rights stop where other rights get infringed. Free speech also has its bounds in the USA. You can't scream "fire" when there's no fire and cause panic, you can't post (nude) photos of someone without their consent, you can't call for someone to get murdered. In Europe you just also can't call for crimes to be committed against ethnicities, adherents to some religion etc. I always find the a…

In Europe you just also can't call for crimes to be committed against ethnicities, adherents to some religion etc.

Or argue that Muslim immigration is harmful (http://www.reuters.com/article/people-france-bardot-muslims-...), or correctly state the Bible's position on homosexuality (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7668448/Christian-p...).

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#55

Post by dang »

empressplay wrote: post #9

The title of this article needs to be changed. There is a world of difference between "anti-immigrant comments" and hate speech that incites violence (which is what's really being discussed here.) @dang

Changed now. Submitted title was "Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete anti-immigrant comments: Germany".

There's probably no way to make this title neutral so we might as well stick with the original even though people object to it.

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#56

Post by trav4225 »

Tomte wrote: post #6
trav4225 wrote: post #2

Free speech, European style.

Free speech, the correct way. In my opinion, of course. (The following is not so much directed at you; I don't know you, after all. It's just that I need to rant, as always when Americans lecture us on free speech. "You" is not the personal you, but "you Americans on web forums") Don't mistake your version of free speech for a canonical implementation. Keep your hate speech and school shootings, be proud of it, and b…

Thanks for your opinion! I sympathize with much of it.

I hope everyone here understands that I was not intending to be condescending, nor do I look down upon others for their opinions on this eternally divisive issue.

The main purpose for my comment "Free speech, European style" was simply to try to encapsulate what I was seeing in a short, "cute" phrase, with a subtle hint that free speech with restrictions is not really free speech. I do not wish to make value judgments about the various policies in this area, I just wanted to highlight the oxymoronic nature of the notion of "free speech with restrictions". Incidentally, even the United States contains restrictions on free speech, albeit to a lesser degree than perhaps any other nation.

With respect,

trav4225

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#57

Post by [deleted] »

isolate wrote: post #31
illumen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's not impossible. It happens all the time already. The HN system which allowed people to downvote you is limiting your speech. Facebook removing posts about sex is limiting your free speech. I find it really perverse that people are ok with banning people talking about sex, but are fine with them calling for murder. Take a guess which society has tens of thousands of murders, and millions in prison? The one t…

It's not limiting free speech unless the government is asking for or compelling it. https://xkcd.com/1357/

[deleted]

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#58

Post by isolate »

[deleted] wrote: post #57
isolate wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not limiting free speech unless the government is asking for or compelling it. https://xkcd.com/1357/

[deleted]

Right, but the parent was conflating that with HN moderation.

Re: Facebook, Google, Twitter agree to delete hate speech in 24 hours: Germany

#59

Post by trav4225 »

jqm wrote: post #19
ohsnap wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be better to explain why you think that it is the correct form of free speech rather than disparage others? You say you hate being 'lectured by Americans' but you don't seem much better...

He actually seems a lot worse. I think there should be a rule he doesn't get to talk anymore unless he says only nice things:)

This made me chuckle. Sarcasm, guys! No need to downvote him! :-)
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