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Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

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Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#51

Post by DominikR »

ccozan wrote: post #39
stevoski wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Germany. It is risky for the company, not for the "disguised employee", because the company can find that the freelancer subsequently demands back-payment of entitlements. I've never actually heard of this happening, but I've encountered difficulties as a freelancer because a company was scared this could happen. True ridiculous story: a German bank I did a consulting gig at for several months would not allow…

No is not ridiculous at all: having your name on a door means that you are "forced" to work there, thus rendering you in a employee since you cannot determine for yourself the place and location of work, the cornerstones of beeing a freelancer. I do consulting for a big technology company in Munich and they have special freelancer areas where you can have any place you want, since there is no concept of "office" for…

I heard this has to do with the fact that once social services prove that you are not actually self employed the employer would have to pay back a significant amount to social services AND a fine on top of that.

I understand that these laws should prevent abuse of employees by big corporations, but it's hilarious that they go after self employed consultants that make several 100k Euros per year and already pay the maximum amount of social security that is possible.

And it's not like these companies have 2 or 3 consultants, they will likely have 10, 100 or even more. We are talking about fines that could be as high as many millions for these companies.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#52

Post by scalesolved »

netcan wrote: post #50
scalesolved wrote: post #46

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

Not posting salaries always baffles me. I mean, I understand the negotiating advantage. Maybe also wanting to keep salary information quite within the company. But, surely, this is a relevant piece of information for the person deciding to apply. I'm surprised jobs sites don't enforce it. Only jobs with salary information are allowed.

Indeed, when I applied for my last job if I found an interesting company I'd always check for salary information, quite a few companies have that info on https://angel.co/

If the information wasn't easily available then there was no way I was going to waste my time to apply for a job that might not even be close to the ballpark of what I'm looking for.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#53

Post by metachris »

stevoski wrote: post #23
ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

Disclaimer: I am not an accountant nor an employment lawyer. Anti-disclaimer: I run a company in Spain, and pay people in other countries money to do things for the company. My understanding is that in the EU your income tax, social security, etc, must be paid to the government in the country you are "tax resident" in. Typically, you are "tax resident" if you spend more than 180 days per year in a country. (Note: tha…

> Typically, you are "tax resident" if you spend more than 180 days per year in a country. (Note: that doesn't mean that if you split your time equally between three countries you avoid being tax resident at all. If only avoiding tax was that easy...)

I've been informed by my tax consultant that you are tax-resident in the country where you spent the majority of time in a year. If you split your time between three or more countries this still applies.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#54

Post by peteretep »

metachris wrote: post #53
stevoski wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I am not an accountant nor an employment lawyer. Anti-disclaimer: I run a company in Spain, and pay people in other countries money to do things for the company. My understanding is that in the EU your income tax, social security, etc, must be paid to the government in the country you are "tax resident" in. Typically, you are "tax resident" if you spend more than 180 days per year in a country. (Note: tha…

> Typically, you are "tax resident" if you spend more than 180 days per year in a country. (Note: that doesn't mean that if you split your time equally between three countries you avoid being tax resident at all. If only avoiding tax was that easy...) I've been informed by my tax consultant that you are tax-resident in the country where you spent the majority of time in a year. If you split your time between three or…

That's far too simplistic, sadly. It's perfectly possible to be tax resident in multiple countries - I am tax resident in two, for example, neither of which is the US.

Here's how you try and work out if you're tax resident in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

There are automatic resident and non-resident qualifiers, but everything else involves a whole range of factors.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#55

Post by peteretep »

nraynaud wrote: post #26
ned wrote: post #16

When you are full-time employed, remotely, by a european company, and living in another european country, does anyone know : — do you set yourself up as a freelance consultant, and pay your healthcare and retirement fund yourself? — …or do you let the company pay that for you in the country they are based in, and somehow benefit from that? How does it work exactly for these social benefits that are very important in…

In France it's risky to be self-employed and have only one customer, that could be re-qualified as a disguised employment. I don't know exactly how that works with foreign companies. edit: my remark on foreign company is that, by having no nexus in the country of the consultant, going after them seems difficult

And the UK, the relevant legislation being IR35.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ir35-find-out-if-it-applies

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#56

Post by eps »

scalesolved wrote: post #46

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

Imagine yourself working for a company and coming across one of its job postings for a position similar to yours.

If posted salary is lower than yours, then you might be overpaid (meaning that you might be on your way out). If it's higher, then you'll feel like you are underpaid. Either way this does no good neither to you or the company. Hence no salaries in job postings.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#57

Post by scalesolved »

eps wrote: post #56
scalesolved wrote: post #46

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

Imagine yourself working for a company and coming across one of its job postings for a position similar to yours. If posted salary is lower than yours, then you might be overpaid (meaning that you might be on your way out). If it's higher, then you'll feel like you are underpaid. Either way this does no good neither to you or the company. Hence no salaries in job postings.

If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation.

I'm not asking for an exact figure just a rough range as everything is always up for negotiation.

"Either way this does no good neither to you or the company." Not revealing salaries I think hurts companies recruitment processes more than they realise, how many great candidates passed on applying due to not wanting to have to dig a figure out of the company. I assume they think by not revealing salaries they'll get applicants who could command the highest rate they are willing to pay PLUS 30% more applying and being offered the job and then going 'yeah I'm fine to work for 30% less'.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#58

Post by coldtea »

scalesolved wrote: post #57
eps wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine yourself working for a company and coming across one of its job postings for a position similar to yours. If posted salary is lower than yours, then you might be overpaid (meaning that you might be on your way out). If it's higher, then you'll feel like you are underpaid. Either way this does no good neither to you or the company. Hence no salaries in job postings.

If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. I'm not asking for an exact figure just a rough range as everything is always up for negotiation. "Either way this does no good neither to you or the company." Not revealing salaries I think hurts companies recr…

>If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation.

Of course you do.

But for the exact same reasons the company doesn't want you to -- that's what the parent is saying.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#59

Post by scalesolved »

coldtea wrote: post #58
scalesolved wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. I'm not asking for an exact figure just a rough range as everything is always up for negotiation. "Either way this does no good neither to you or the company." Not revealing salaries I think hurts companies recr…

> If the salary is higher for the same position then the company has been underpaying you, if the salary is lower then they are trying to get someone on the cheap. Either way I'd want to know if this situation. Of course you do. But for the exact same reasons the company doesn't want you to -- that's what the parent is saying.

I had the impression that the parent implied the situation was advantageous to both employees and companies yet in reality it's only advantageous to the companies.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#60

Post by ameen »

As an Indian, I doubt I'll qualify for work in these companies. The problem for non-EU, non-US devs wishing to work remotely [1] is that most companies can't legally employ you or aren't willing to jump through bureaucratic hoops just to employ you.

I'd subscribed to a remote-only jobs board and the issue was that either I didn't qualify for work due to my residency, or the company never really responded.

I would say if these issues didn't exist most companies wouldn't have to import a workforce from elsewhere. Most third-world countries have a decent quality of life that we wouldn't have to transplant ourselves & be harassed by less-qualified xenophobic residents just to work and pay obscene taxes (by third-world standards) that in the end does serve them.

I'd love for the EU and the US to become more Anti-immigrant (thankfully it's rising) and for the populace to wake up once the industries that kept them at the top move out of there.

[1] - Most of us speak fluent English and are aware of western cultural sensibilities & work ethics (thanks, Hollywood! & outsourcing firms). Our skill level isn't to blame either since we adhere to industry standards in code-quality, best practices, design patterns, etc.

I'm Westernized, loved America & the U.K. when I visited them and the people were awesome, but thanks to nationalities and nationalists the U.S. has imposed these arbitrary impediments designed to keep away those willing to move from their native countries to further their careers.

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