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I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

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Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#51

Post by csydas »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #22

We don't have any of those problems at my daughter's school. First, all the iPads are locked down using some management software, so the kids are locked out of the clock, etc. that can cause unintentional distractions. Second, they limit use to about 30 minutes per day, so traditional lessons are taught using traditional techniques. Third, our school emphasizes social interaction with project-based learning, with the…

I don't know if you'll know this, but are they implementing any other safeguards on the Macbook Airs? (MbA) Just from doing tons of work in a Mac-centric university where the students' idea of pirating was to search "[item] download mac", the search results are crawling with predator sites that promise anything from PDFs to interactive solutions manuals, only to actually download a dmg full of malware (usually Mackeeper and a few others). And of course students (and professors alike) would dutifully punch in their admin pass without thinking about it, and quick enough there'd be a nice and infected machine.

What I'm getting at is if I were the tech admin for that school, I'd be less concerned about what 0-days exist in flash or java and more concerned about what people are willingly installing on their computer, and though this is obviously anecdotal, seeing what my younger cousin would end up installing despite our warnings, I'm inclined to think kids aren't up to the task just yet of full on computer management. Even fairly savvy kids would fall the the sales pitch of the one kid who found a free download for a popular game, which of course was packed with malware.

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#52

Post by Vraxx »

alistairSH wrote: post #21
michaelmcdonald wrote: post #2

Change is hard. When computers were first introduced to schools there were similar arguments and complaints. When calculators were brought in instead of the slide rule we heard it would be the end of actually "knowing" math. Teachers who are great find ways to use technology and tools available to inspire their students and create engaging lessons. This teacher just sounds resistant to change.

Two counter-points... 1. Computers in classrooms have rarely, if ever, been deployed to entire classrooms in the way that tablets can be. Typically, you'll see one or two PCs in a class, plus a computer lab. PCs don't distract in the same way iPads can. 2. Calculators do make people worse at math. I saw this first-hand with my son. As he went through school, they used calculators for everything. Students began to rel…

Counter anecdote to your calculator anecdote. I grew up using calculators all through school and excelled in knowing math. Using a calculator did not inhibit my ability to question the result of the calculator whatsoever. I don't think calculators are necessarily to blame here.

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#53

Post by joshstrange »

eloisant wrote: post #42
joshstrange wrote: post #13

Good lord.... I don't think I can roll my eyes hard enough.... > One of my saddest days in my digital classroom was when the children rushed in from the lunchroom one rainy recess and dashed for their iPads. Wait, I implored, we play with Legos on rainy days! I dumped out the huge container of Legos that were pure magic just a couple of weeks ago, that prompted so much collaboration and conversation, but the delight…

> please tell me why playing with Legos is any more valuable than playing minecraft? First, it's important for children to use their hands to develop their cognitive abilities. There is more in the world than just "pictures behind glass" to interact with and manipulating objects of various shapes, texture and weight is important. Secondly, playing Minecraft is great, but maybe that's not what the kids were rushing to…

First: is it? I think that manipulating 3D objects on a tablet can lead to a much greater understanding than paper ever can (see: 3D modeling, even on the computer it was hard to grasp sometimes)

Secondly: This is a classroom where the teacher is in charge, just because you give kids iPads doesn't mean they rule the class now, give them the option of Lego or minecraft then and don't allow them to be on FB/CC...

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#54

Post by Allegrippus »

b6 wrote: post #46

This was really painful to read. I don't often think I have vision or significant insight, but it's been obvious to me for as long as I can remember that egregious use of technology in classrooms is a profoundly terrible idea. What, educators were worried children wouldn't spend enough time staring at glowing rectangles, and needed to get a head start? Really? It's not clear whether most adults are even capable of ma…

And what's a "gathering rug", anyway? Are desks too rough on their little sissy rear ends?

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#55

Post by creshal »

joeevans1000 wrote: post #34

Remember when that guy was offering to buy every classroom free TVs in exchange for the school's commitment to have the kids watch a certain amount of programming a day? The programming included ads. This seems the same. Having the kids load linux onto laptops, yeah... I could understand the value in that. Having them work with Raspberry Pi's, I could see the merit in that. Program robots? Definitely. But this debacl…

> Apple devices are imminently non-configurable... they are designed to walk you through the computing experience

Which probably seems tempting for budget-strapped schools which can't afford replacing equipment every year nor have the staff to build something themselves around RasPis.

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#56

Post by TeMPOraL »

csydas wrote: post #51
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #22

We don't have any of those problems at my daughter's school. First, all the iPads are locked down using some management software, so the kids are locked out of the clock, etc. that can cause unintentional distractions. Second, they limit use to about 30 minutes per day, so traditional lessons are taught using traditional techniques. Third, our school emphasizes social interaction with project-based learning, with the…

I don't know if you'll know this, but are they implementing any other safeguards on the Macbook Airs? (MbA) Just from doing tons of work in a Mac-centric university where the students' idea of pirating was to search "[item] download mac", the search results are crawling with predator sites that promise anything from PDFs to interactive solutions manuals, only to actually download a dmg full of malware (usually Mackee…

I think that's sort of the point of "teaching the children not just how to use their computer but how to take responsibility for keeping it running".

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#57

Post by FussyZeus »

eloisant wrote: post #42
joshstrange wrote: post #13

Good lord.... I don't think I can roll my eyes hard enough.... > One of my saddest days in my digital classroom was when the children rushed in from the lunchroom one rainy recess and dashed for their iPads. Wait, I implored, we play with Legos on rainy days! I dumped out the huge container of Legos that were pure magic just a couple of weeks ago, that prompted so much collaboration and conversation, but the delight…

> please tell me why playing with Legos is any more valuable than playing minecraft? First, it's important for children to use their hands to develop their cognitive abilities. There is more in the world than just "pictures behind glass" to interact with and manipulating objects of various shapes, texture and weight is important. Secondly, playing Minecraft is great, but maybe that's not what the kids were rushing to…

Does everything need to be skill building and development oriented? I think a lot of the issues we've got right now with our youth are squarely on the fact that we're engineering their little lives from the delivery room to the end of high school.

More importantly I don't believe that in person interaction is so critical. For many introverts like myself, forced F2F interaction in school was torture and did nothing but make me hate speaking publicly (which strangely, got a whole lot better once I was older, a little more confident, and actually understood what I was talking about).

In short: They're kids. It sounds like this school went a little too far into iPad territory, but frankly I think those kids will likely get more value out of skills manipulating screens than they will get out of skills involving legos.

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#58

Post by hellbanner »

joeevans1000 wrote: post #34

Remember when that guy was offering to buy every classroom free TVs in exchange for the school's commitment to have the kids watch a certain amount of programming a day? The programming included ads. This seems the same. Having the kids load linux onto laptops, yeah... I could understand the value in that. Having them work with Raspberry Pi's, I could see the merit in that. Program robots? Definitely. But this debacl…

Right. "Program or Be Programmed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgicuytCkoY

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#59

Post by tormeh »

mhurron wrote: post #4
michaelmcdonald wrote: post #2

Change is hard. When computers were first introduced to schools there were similar arguments and complaints. When calculators were brought in instead of the slide rule we heard it would be the end of actually "knowing" math. Teachers who are great find ways to use technology and tools available to inspire their students and create engaging lessons. This teacher just sounds resistant to change.

Change also doesn't just happen because you dumped a computer in a room. I personally haven't seen a computer used effectively in a classroom, in a large part because the teachers don't know how to integrate them into their lessons. They were given devices and then given no instruction on how to use them.

Yes, very freequent use of computers in classrooms are linked to significantly worse outcomes[0]

0: http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/educati...

Re: I gave my students iPads – then wished I could take them back

#60

Post by greyman »

gnrme wrote: post #44

iPads are primarily high end content consumption devices - in my mind, that makes them a strange choice for education.

Depends on which apps do you use - there are also a lot of quizzes, puzzles, math and grammar exercises etc. But the problem is, what I also observed on my daughter, that when the exercises are printed on paper, she can just focus on them, since there isn't anything else on the paper. But when on iPad, there is always a lure to just close that educational app and switch to another entertainment one. The attention span is shorted and the focus is shallower, since there is always a temptation to be distracted by something else.
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