When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical? • Hacker News Board

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#51

Post by tomp » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #42

tomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations are a part of a free market. They provide transparency and ensure that everyone is playing by the same rules.

> "Regulations are a part of a free market." Are you sure? I've never heard another free market capitalist argue that government regulations are an important part of how their ideal market works. Can you point out any free market economists that have argued for government regulation?

That's because those free market capitalists are (at best) hypocrites or (at worst) stupid. Obviously capitalism relies on regulation - of property rights, IP rights, contract laws, bans on fraud and insider trading (although opinions are mixed on that last one), ...

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#52

Post by asift » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #36

venomsnake wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air travel is not a free market - the capital requirements are insane, the cost of fuel is often subsidized by the government (you cannot tax or excise it IIRC), you have a lot of regulations and so on ...

Regulations are a part of a free market. They provide transparency and ensure that everyone is playing by the same rules.

Regulation is part of a free market, but governmental regulation is not (i.e., regulation imposed by a monopolistic entity).

There are many forms of private governance and regulation that protect consumers. That's not to say free markets are utopias, but believing that governments are the only source of regulation is incorrect. In fact, in many cases private governance is far more effective (e.g., the private regulation Uber is subject to is stronger and more efficient than the governmental regulation traditional taxis are subject to).

See "Private Governance" by Edward Stringham for some good examples of market governance in action. The book received the following review from Peter Thiel:

"Stringham dispels state-worshipping fiction with historical fact to show how good governance has preceded Leviathan, ignores it when necessary, and can surpass it when it fails."

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#53

Post by Morty_89 » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

I think everyone has mentioned it but fuck airlines, the shit they pull on a regular basis means they are void from any form of sympathy, especially from a consumer.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#54

Post by tomp » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

asift wrote: post #52

tomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations are a part of a free market. They provide transparency and ensure that everyone is playing by the same rules.

Regulation is part of a free market, but governmental regulation is not (i.e., regulation imposed by a monopolistic entity). There are many forms of private governance and regulation that protect consumers. That's not to say free markets are utopias, but believing that governments are the only source of regulation is incorrect. In fact, in many cases private governance is far more effective (e.g., the private regulat…

> Regulation is part of a free market, but governmental regulation is not

Until someone comes, holds a gun to your face and takes your sandwich. Then you'll be thankful for government regulation.

I'm absolutely certain that the government's (attempt of a) monopoly on violence is one of the most crucial aspects of free markets. Another is contract law.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#55

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

emergentcypher wrote: post #23

Really? This is capitalism and a free market economy. They sold the tickets, it's their own damn problem. If they don't like it, they should fix their ticketing systems. If anybody needs to be shamed, it's the airlines themselves for arbitrary price discrimination.

The article is about ethics. Capitalism is orthogonal to ethics. There are things that are allowed under law and market economy that are unethical, or just plain douchy.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#56

Post by asift » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #45

ZenoArrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Regulations are a part of a free market." Are you sure? I've never heard another free market capitalist argue that government regulations are an important part of how their ideal market works. Can you point out any free market economists that have argued for government regulation?

How do those free market economists solve the problem of externalities?

How do monopolistic entities full of self-interested humans solve problems of externalities?

The economics research on public choice has done a great deal for setting aside the common yet inaccurate assumption that government agents pursue the interests of society. It's not appropriate to compare real world markets to utopian governments. Both are imperfect. The real question is which is superior under realistic assumptions.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#57

Post by philjohn » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

Virgin Atlantic have a great service where, upon booking an economy ticket, you can then bid for an upgrade. The person who bids highest, wins.

It's such a simple concept, but fantastic in that a higher priced seat that might have gone unsold, instead goes for what someone perceives its value to them to be.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#58

Post by maxxxxx » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

Companies "hack" their customers all the time but somehow it's unethical for customers to do the reverse? It seems to some people the "free market" means corporations can do whatever they want but not vice versa.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#59

Post by venomsnake » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:41 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #42

tomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations are a part of a free market. They provide transparency and ensure that everyone is playing by the same rules.

> "Regulations are a part of a free market." Are you sure? I've never heard another free market capitalist argue that government regulations are an important part of how their ideal market works. Can you point out any free market economists that have argued for government regulation?

Regulations that make possible entrance to a market - standards, forced ineroperability, common carrier, dumb pipes etc - are generally good and provide more efficient market.

Regulations that prevent entrance to a market - by artificially rising the capital requirements to the impossible, are probably not helping the free market.

Re: When is a ‘travel hack’ unethical?

#60

Post by nradov » Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #29

TeMPOraL wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is basically how free market is supposed to work, right? ;).

Air travel is not a free market - the capital requirements are insane, the cost of fuel is often subsidized by the government (you cannot tax or excise it IIRC), you have a lot of regulations and so on ...

Air travel in the US is highly regulated, but the market is actually very free. If you have sufficient capital you can absolutely start a new airline and be carrying paying passengers in under a year. In fact you could probably do it in a few months by leasing existing aircraft and contracting with existing aviation service companies for most operations. The FAA actively supports new ventures and will work with them on the approval process.