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What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

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Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#51

Post by pandaman »

I get a lot of recruiters insisting on calling me instead of e-mailing their vacancies. I figure they aim for the same effect as with sales techniques described in this article. However, I am not a native English speaker and these calls end even faster than an e-mail conversation.

It's much easier to decline in a foreign language than in your own. All the emotional cues get filtered through the language barrier and even if I understand them perfectly they do not bear any direct impact.

I suspect I am not the only one so I'd advise people to adjust their cold calling strategies accordingly. It might be worth to have sales calls in your target's native tongue even if you are not fluent or switch to e-mail in such a case.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#52

Post by ig1 »

tptacek wrote: post #15

The bit about cold calls working better than anticipated rings true. I advised a company I help out with not to bother cold calling, because it never works, and was embarrassed to learn a few months later that it had been extremely effective just to have the founder ring random people up. The bit about remembering names, deploying kids names, and talking about football --- that part does not ring true. I've done sale…

It absolutely happens (as in I've seen it happen in lots of places) and serves an important value.

When cold calling the big thing that's missing in the communication is trust, why should the lead trust some guy who's phoned her up ? - building a personal rapport helps establish a feeling that "this person is like me and I can trust them" which is a key part of cold sales.

For account managers it serves a very different purpose, it serves to reduce churn (and enable upselling). It's much easier to switch away from a company that you have a purely professional relationship with than from your buddy at Acme corp who you always look forward to catching up with.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#53

Post by hackuser »

> I asked him after what it was about and he told me this dude’s kid was sick this week. Why would I care? Why would our salesman care?

This is the fundemental principle in a way. People naturally care about each other and want to be cared about. It doesn't always work out in practice because many things can get in the way: Time, stress, competing concerns, fear, etc. But we're social animals, down to the biological level. Understanding that about others and about yourself can help you with sales and with many more important human relations.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#54

Post by kzhahou »

jonesb6 wrote: post #46
pavlov wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a football powerhouse That could explain why the women were tired of the topic.

Are women not supposed to like football? I actually went to the University of Oregon and found women both attending the U of O and those who lived in greater Oregon to be more passionate about the game then many of my male friends/colleagues/classmates. It's a risk whenever you try to connect with someone over what you think might be a shared passion. Sports can be risky because not everyone like sports, but if you g…

It's not surprising that your males friends weren't into it, if I correctly assume that they are in tech.

But obviously the overwhelming majority of football fans are guys.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#55

Post by vox_mollis »

zzalpha wrote: post #16

This is great advice for anyone working with people, period. Folks are a lot more willing to work with someone who respects them and appears interested in them as a human being. And if you're interested in any kind of leadership position, these skills are absolutely vital, as they are the way you build a rapport with the people you're leading.

> Folks are a lot more willing to work with someone who respects them and appears interested in them as a human being.

I suspect you mean "someone who pretends to respect them". You have the "appears" qualifier correct.

At the end of the day, the Dale Carnegie routine is simply mimicry of the mores of friendship as a means to an end. Salespeople are charlatan middlemen social engineers, and do not add value except to organizations whose products cannot stand on their own merits, in which case they are not actually adding societal value at all.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#56

Post by ddingus »

shostack wrote: post #42
ddingus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still works. One of the hard parts about sales is understanding that people don't like to be pitched, or intruded on, and balancing that with the fact that the product or service may well be to their benefit! If you had a good friend struggling somehow, and you knew you could save them a lot of money, time and effort would you not strongly desire to communicate that to them? And when you are struggling, don't you…

Flip side: I get a ton of sales emails each month. Almost no sales calls because I go to lengths to avoid having my number get out there. In my space, the ad network sales people and ad tech reps almost never add any value to the conversation. I would be better served getting technical documentation as to what actually differentiates them from all of their competitors (usually nothing). It is an annoyance and an intr…

You and me both.

Interestingly, I have gotten some good calls and emails related to traditional print and media advertising. They actually do have information and can add some value it seems.

It's almost as if being able to supposedly target better, and I write that because I do question some of the methods and their real value, they feel they no longer have to work with you to maximize the AD. Doing that almost always makes more sense, and it's an easy, up front conversation too. If that conversation qualifies me in, I'm likely to buy an AD! But I'm not so likely to qualify myself, as there are just too many choices, etc...

I'm actually skilled in both, sales and engineering / tech and have held sales, pre-sales, and tech roles. (gotta roll with the punches sometimes, and I'm game.)

When I do make cold calls, I generally get good response rates as well as qualified lead rates. Helps to actually know stuff they may find relevant, or answer that quick question off the cuff. As for the relationship?

The big advantage is the relationship is often implied. Having shared domain knowledge almost always means a dialog that is worth having. All it really takes is a quick read on the other person, then just talk with them as one would a peer.

Some of these firms could really do themselves a great service by taking their callers and salespeople on a few tours, or through some education that can add that value. It's not specific domain knowledge, but it's pretty good. And their calls suddenly aren't quite so mind numbing too.

Win for everyone, IMHO.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#57

Post by ddingus »

shostack wrote: post #42
ddingus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still works. One of the hard parts about sales is understanding that people don't like to be pitched, or intruded on, and balancing that with the fact that the product or service may well be to their benefit! If you had a good friend struggling somehow, and you knew you could save them a lot of money, time and effort would you not strongly desire to communicate that to them? And when you are struggling, don't you…

Flip side: I get a ton of sales emails each month. Almost no sales calls because I go to lengths to avoid having my number get out there. In my space, the ad network sales people and ad tech reps almost never add any value to the conversation. I would be better served getting technical documentation as to what actually differentiates them from all of their competitors (usually nothing). It is an annoyance and an intr…

Oh, I should ask, just for a curio:

What do you think of high value stuff sent to you? We all get the usual gift card, gadget, or curio. Whatever.

But I've had somebody actually send me something I might consider buying. Not the product, just as a gift.

I called 'em. Looked like a $50 - $100 item, and I figured they were serious. They were.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#58

Post by jhwhite »

I really don't like the small talk bit. I don't want to chat about football, the weather, or necessarily my kid. I love him to death and I think he's awesome, but I'm usually busy at work. I want to get information, find out what's actionable, and get back to work.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#59

Post by foobarian »

win_ini wrote: post #11
odedgolan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote it on my spare time and based on my experience. Nobody proofread it and it's a takeaway for next time. I posted it on HN since I like HN, that's all.

Don't worry about some asshole picking apart stuff. Your writing is clear enough that if someone has a hard time parsing it - that's their loss. I've been in Saas for over 10 years helping sales and marketing teams convert and close at higher rates. The article hits home for several tech founders who understand customers but don't understand prospects. The post captures some learnings that many other people never ask…

I used to be more of a grammar nazi but in my old age I came to view with suspicion emails or texts that are written "too perfect." It signals a person who has too much time on their hands or allocates their time poorly, and is insecure about letting a few mistakes through.

Re: What I’ve learned from sitting next to a pro salesman

#60

Post by enobrev »

kzhahou wrote: post #54
jonesb6 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are women not supposed to like football? I actually went to the University of Oregon and found women both attending the U of O and those who lived in greater Oregon to be more passionate about the game then many of my male friends/colleagues/classmates. It's a risk whenever you try to connect with someone over what you think might be a shared passion. Sports can be risky because not everyone like sports, but if you g…

It's not surprising that your males friends weren't into it, if I correctly assume that they are in tech. But obviously the overwhelming majority of football fans are guys.

I don't think it's overwhelmingly obvious.

  "The data show that 70% of working men and 59% of working women are sports fans" [1]

  "74.6 percent of all male respondents consider themselves football fans as well as 51.5 percent of all female respondents."[2]

  "...according to data from The ESPN Sports Poll and the U.S. Census, with league officials saying 44 percent of all football fans are now women."[3]
1: http://www.gallup.com/poll/183689/industry-grows-percentage-...

2: http://www.statista.com/statistics/208431/football-fans-by-g...

3: http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/7536295/nfl...

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