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State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

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Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#51

Post by jacquesm »

venomsnake wrote: post #48
jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the reverse. Enter house expecting safety, get killed.

How easy the social fabric can be unraveled :(

Destruction and creation are a-symmetrical. I had an interesting exchange with another HN'er not that long ago about that very topic. I ran a community of a million people and it took by my estimates less than 50 dedicated assholes to totally wreck it for everybody else. How they managed that and why I couldn't stop it is very much related to how 'open societies' are impossible to defend against a large enough number of idiots hell bent on destroying them. The ease with which you can destroy something has absolutely no bearing on the amount of hard work it took to create it. Societies are no different in this respect.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#52

Post by venomsnake »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
adsche wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their involvement in "those wars" being that they had to flee them?

Yes, for the most of the people fleeing that was the sum total of their involvement. And for a small percentage of those people they either are taking the fight with them or have other plans. It's a tough situation, on the one hand no right thinking person has a problem with sheltering refugees, on the other hand those very same people are worried about what the long term consequences of these mass movements of peopl…

Schengen will hold. But the outer borders of the union and the balkans will be militarized beyond belief.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#53

Post by AnimalMuppet »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #10
benevol wrote: post #7

Next thing you know, a new and even more totally total mass surveillance law is passed. (Obviously, attacks will continue to happen from time to time.)

Given the unusually extreme nature of this (at least from the witness reports of the mayhem as it's ongoing), I fear a mass surveillance bill might actually be one of the lesser worries.

Meaning that the violence is a worse worry? Or meaning that you worry about other bills besides just surveillance?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#54

Post by vermooten »

Gatsky wrote: post #9

A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

Far right parties are more mainstream in France than other western European countries. This suggests a more racist society. Racism leads to marginalised youths who have nothing to lose. Easy pickings for anyone who wants to use their potential.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#55

Post by ghostDancer »

ps4fanboy wrote: post #4

With the amount of Syrian/Afghan refugees flooding into Europe right now and Europes involvement in those wars, I imagine this sort of thing is going to be on the rise.

Most of the refugees are running from this kind of people but in their own country.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#56

Post by untog »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #26
jonesb6 wrote: post #14

For people in and around Paris right now the #PorteOuverte hash tag is being used to help shelter those who cannot make it home safely.

Be careful with that. This wouldn't be too hard: 1. Enter house claiming to need to go somewhere. 2. Kill everybody. 3. Move to next willing house and repeat.

Sure. But it is likely that the people attacking have a carefully orchestrated plan, and I doubt exploiting the rise of a social media hashtag is included within it. Of course, that's not to say there aren't opportunistic people out there, but...

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#57

Post by cballard »

rodrigocoelho wrote: post #38

Reuters just reported: "French President Hollande decides state of emergency for all of France, borders closed." Source: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_attacks_2?utm_source=twi...

How, physically? Do borders really... exist in the Schengen Zone?

Like, how do they shut this down?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.43629...

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#58

Post by jacquesm »

venomsnake wrote: post #52
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for the most of the people fleeing that was the sum total of their involvement. And for a small percentage of those people they either are taking the fight with them or have other plans. It's a tough situation, on the one hand no right thinking person has a problem with sheltering refugees, on the other hand those very same people are worried about what the long term consequences of these mass movements of peopl…

Schengen will hold. But the outer borders of the union and the balkans will be militarized beyond belief.

It is already changing. Give it a few weeks. Sweden and Hungary have already put border controls back in place, France will likely do as well as a result of this attack at least for the foreseeable future. After that - and coupled with the immense increase of cross-border crime in the last decade - it will be a fairly easy step to rescind Schengen, if not in name then at least in spirit or on a 'temporary' basis. It's the easiest way out of a lot of the current problems and it is a lot cheaper than militarizing the Balkans which has other side-effects that are mostly undesirable.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#60

Post by vezzy-fnord »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #53
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the unusually extreme nature of this (at least from the witness reports of the mayhem as it's ongoing), I fear a mass surveillance bill might actually be one of the lesser worries.

Meaning that the violence is a worse worry? Or meaning that you worry about other bills besides just surveillance?

Expansion of executive and police powers, I'd assume. In the worst case, you might even hear calls for internment.
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