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Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

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Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#51

Post by darkr »

Animats wrote: post #46

I thought Google was building the little 25MPH self driving cars for senior communities, campuses, and such. But they're running them on El Camino Real. They apparently registered the small self driving cars as what California calls a "Neighborhood Electric Vehicle".[0] A NEV is limited to 25 MPH, and cannot be operated on a road with a speed limit above 35 MPH. It's one step above a golf cart. Local municipalities c…

I regularly exceed 40mph on my road bike, on downhills at least. It's fine.

I'd agree that you shouldn't be in the bike lane at those speeds (though in much of the UK they are few and far between and mostly consist of a bit of paint on the side of the road). That's what roads are for.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#52

Post by [deleted] »

jws wrote: post #17

The Google cars are licensed as Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicl... This means they are legally limited to 25mph and legally allowed to drive on roadways with speed limits up to 45mph. NEVs let you have very light weight, inexpensive vehicles with exceptional economy… that would be instant death traps in a high speed collision. They don't undergo ordinary cr…

[deleted]

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#53

Post by Daneel_ »

RobotCaleb wrote: post #2

In autonomous mode do they pull over properly if A. getting pulled over and B. emergency vehicles are whirring about doing their thing?

Google cars pay attention to emergency services workers already - they talked about it in their TED talk earlier this year - link: https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_...

Skip to 10:00 for the police man halting the car, then waving it through.

The whole video is worth a watch, to be honest. It's amazing how well they cater for edge cases.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#54

Post by developer1 »

finnn wrote: post #10

They didn't link to either of their sources, so I went and found them: Mountain View Police Department blog post: http://mountainviewpoliceblog.com/2015/11/12/inquiring-minds... Google Self-Driving Car Project Google+ post: https://plus.google.com/+SelfDrivingCar/posts/j9ouVZSZnRf

It's absurd that 24 mph in a 35 zone is considered "too slow". This is nearly equivalent to driving 40 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, and there is not a single traffic court in any Canadian city that would uphold a ticket being served for that difference. How is this even a thing down there? In a 60 km/h zone here, you'd have to be going 25 km/h to even warrant being pulled over at all (ie: doing 15 mph in 37 mph zone).

If 24 mph is too slow for that particular road or neighbourhood, then the speed limit should be 45+ mph, not 35. Clearly the average citizen is already driving 45+, or the "slow" wouldn't even be noticeable.

Edit: wait, this is even more absurd. The traffic violation quoted is https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d11/c... which mentions "highway". 35 mph or 56 km/h is residential street speed, not highway speed. This whole thing makes no sense to me.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#55

Post by vnchr »

galago wrote: post #41
sundvor wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem would be resolved quite nicely if all cars were self driving, interconnected, and could be governed by a master plan.

If competing commercial systems are allowed, they might try to game the various systems as a matter of competition. To fix it, the regulation ends up being a form of government mandated mass transit.

Definitely an interesting scenario (not sure why you were downvoted). New enabling technologies may promise the potential for utopia, but human nature persists. If the standards for the technology can't come from competitors cooperating, we're left with regulation. Forgive me for repeating your point, but it seemed lost on some, perhaps unintentionally.

Where we will we get the new rules for a new road?

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#56

Post by laichzeit0 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #34
sundvor wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem would be resolved quite nicely if all cars were self driving, interconnected, and could be governed by a master plan.

The possible improvements would truly need mind blowing. I can't even think of a reason why those cars would have to stop asking the way if everything goes right. There would be no more need for traffic lights or stop signs to coordinate traffic between cars. You would still need them for pedestrians. However, if the traffic lights are integrated I the same system as the cars then the cars can just adjust their speed…

It would also be great when a traffic light turned green that all cars started moving at exactly the same time, as opposed to the delay where every car waits for the car in front of them to start moving with human drivers.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#57

Post by coderdude »

developer1 wrote: post #54
finnn wrote: post #10

They didn't link to either of their sources, so I went and found them: Mountain View Police Department blog post: http://mountainviewpoliceblog.com/2015/11/12/inquiring-minds... Google Self-Driving Car Project Google+ post: https://plus.google.com/+SelfDrivingCar/posts/j9ouVZSZnRf

It's absurd that 24 mph in a 35 zone is considered "too slow". This is nearly equivalent to driving 40 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, and there is not a single traffic court in any Canadian city that would uphold a ticket being served for that difference. How is this even a thing down there? In a 60 km/h zone here, you'd have to be going 25 km/h to even warrant being pulled over at all (ie: doing 15 mph in 37 mph zone). If…

I'm California USA, driving too slow is considered a hazard. It's kinda fuzzy to be honest. They can still pop you for speeding whenever they want but they're really looking for the person who stands out.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#58

Post by terryf »

Robin_Message wrote: post #32
Dylan16807 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer But that's always true. All the way down to 10mph speed limits. The job of speed limits is not maximum safety at the cost of everything else. In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

> In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road I think there have been quite a few studies showing most people think they are above average at driving. I don't think people do this at all. I think they are overconfident, hurrying apes, with no real conception of stopping distance or kinetic energy, aiming to just miss each other with these multi-ton projectiles. It's sadly not surprising how many people ar…

> It's sadly not surprising how many people are killed on the roads.

In 2013, US, total number of traffic deaths was 32719. Total number of miles driven: 2,946,000,000,000.

Miles driven per one death: 90,039,426

It's not even one-in-a-million chance of dying. It's one-in-90-million chance. That is really very good odds. Driving is really quite safe and getting safer all the time. Cars manufactured today have safety systems and braking ability, traction control and other safety measures that are basically incomparable to cars made 20-30 years ago. The speed limits are still the same for everyone though. The whole point of a car is to quickly get from one location to another.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#59

Post by ubernostrum »

Robin_Message wrote: post #32
Dylan16807 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer But that's always true. All the way down to 10mph speed limits. The job of speed limits is not maximum safety at the cost of everything else. In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

> In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road I think there have been quite a few studies showing most people think they are above average at driving. I don't think people do this at all. I think they are overconfident, hurrying apes, with no real conception of stopping distance or kinetic energy, aiming to just miss each other with these multi-ton projectiles. It's sadly not surprising how many people ar…

Being able to sense the design speed of a road is completely unrelated to someone's estimation of their driving skills.

The design speed of a road is, in fact, something you're probably only partly consciously aware of as you're driving on it; it's something you get not from a speed-limit sign but from cues like the way curves are built, the length of merging ramps and exit lanes, or how far ahead of something a warning sign is posted. Whether you think you're an above-average driver has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that you will, consciously or not, learn to pick up on those cues and you will adjust your driving to it unless you're constantly watching your speedometer (and even if you do, if you drive significantly below the design speed, there will be times when you're uncomfortable doing so, though you might not realize why it's making you uncomfortable).

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#60

Post by fletchowns »

developer1 wrote: post #54
finnn wrote: post #10

They didn't link to either of their sources, so I went and found them: Mountain View Police Department blog post: http://mountainviewpoliceblog.com/2015/11/12/inquiring-minds... Google Self-Driving Car Project Google+ post: https://plus.google.com/+SelfDrivingCar/posts/j9ouVZSZnRf

It's absurd that 24 mph in a 35 zone is considered "too slow". This is nearly equivalent to driving 40 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, and there is not a single traffic court in any Canadian city that would uphold a ticket being served for that difference. How is this even a thing down there? In a 60 km/h zone here, you'd have to be going 25 km/h to even warrant being pulled over at all (ie: doing 15 mph in 37 mph zone). If…

In California, if you aren't driving 5 mph over the speed limit, the car behind you is going to tailgate the hell out of you. It's ridiculous, I know.
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