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Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

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Re: Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

#51
This is an interesting topic but the article is very pie in the sky.

Talking of members of the public using scientific research (In high school even), code reuse to save money etc. is a bit silly.

For starters I'd imagine code, like an arts student theses is copyright the researcher?

As mentioned 10% is getting code working. 90% is getting it working for others. Researchers just don't have time or skills. And it loses most of it's 'possible' value without that 90%

But as a start a simplified git framework would be nice. Git is way to hard for researchers and other easier version controls won't be suggested cause everyone loves git. Not allowing branching for instance in the gui of some sort of easyGit program.

Re: Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

#52

This is an interesting topic but the article is very pie in the sky. Talking of members of the public using scientific research (In high school even), code reuse to save money etc. is a bit silly. For starters I'd imagine code, like an arts student theses is copyright the researcher? As mentioned 10% is getting code working. 90% is getting it working for others. Researchers just don't have time or skills. And it lose…

Copyright the researcher / university, and usually the latter.

Re: Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

#53
post #48
post #14

Amen! I work in electric utility research. Pretty much every paper gives some simulation results. Getting the source? The only option is emailing and hoping the researchers respond, want to share, and have code that runs on something other than laptop of the student that built it. I haven't ever succeeded in getting working source code. There are many simple improvements that could be done. Just a github repo for eac…

I'd imagine one of the problems with that is most researchers must sell the rights to their research to journal publishers.

Sell? They usually pay money to assign away the rights.

Re: Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

#54
There's a great comment here on the issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/39yj8y/why...

>- The code is a mess - Most code is written by grad students, it's often sloppy scripts that are duck taped together to get the numbers and graphs needed for the paper. I know some students who essentially have to rebuild things from scratch if they need to expand on what they did for their thesis. Releasing this type of code is embarrassing to the dept, advisor, and student.

>- Don't want to support it - Even with disclaimers, there'll inevitably be someone who downloads the code, and emails asking for help/support. Depending on the quality of the code some may even claim that your results are false because they couldn't get it running on their application. I'm all for peer review and agree that code should be available, and further i know that the scenario is probably a rare occurrence, but still some would rather not publish it to avoid it entirely.

>- Simply don't know where or how - granted i'm in the engineering school (not cs) so milage may vary, but you'd be surprised how many students i've talked to that just don't know much about github or repositories (even svn).

>- There's no incentive - students are already overworked, what benefits do they gain from publishing their code? It helps academic research, yes. But most just want to finish their phd and move on to the next thing, anything else just takes time away from them accomplishing that goal.

>- Funding conflicts - part of the code i use was developed by another student who was funded by a particular grant where a deliverable was required at the end. Thus, anything i release cannot include that code, which inevitably breaks the rest. I do not know the particulars of the grant or why it is not allowed to be released, this is just the response i receive when i ask to put my code online.

Re: Too much of the research process is now shrouded by the opaque use of computers

#55
post #45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core of the problem is that coding and documentation are not considered part of the "science". Contrast it with writing papers, which is understood as communication with scientific peers, the community, and therefore is "science" -- and, of course, is one of the measures of scientific progress. Writing code is not. Anecdotally, writing papers about code is (on occasion), so maybe there is a way to convinc…

I think a more fundamental problem is that coding and documentation aren't actually taught in a formalized way to many scientists, so you pick up the habits that worked for you at the time, and just carry those forward.

True, for the most part practicing scientists have not had a good exposure to proper software practices.
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