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Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

blog.okturtles.com

51–60 of 176 posts

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#51
post #38
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The two biggest missing features are persistence and search. A well-tended IRC server has those via bots. Other important missing features are ease of use in terms of creation of > topic-focused channels wut? This is totally easy in IRC: /join #topic-channel makes the channel > private channels I'm tempted to say that a bot can provide that... but sure. > and high quality mobile and desktop clients. Not buying that…

Does your mobile IRC client notify you (push message) when you're mentioned or receive a private message, but only when you're idle or offline on your desktop client?

yes. and it is consistently faster than slacks push notifications.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#52
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have - e.g. http://vector.im/beta on top of the Matrix.org protocol. [disclaimer, I work on Matrix]

Not to be too negative but based on quick glance it would seem like the Matrix protocol is really "noisy" if compared to something like IRC (which admittedly is ridiculously spartan). How much data ends up flowing down the wires for a simple "hello world" message?

But why does it matter? Bandwidth is super-cheap.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#53
post #3

Can someone explain the attraction that nerds have for Slack/Hipchat over a well-tended IRC server?

The second part of your question is a big part of the answer...an IRC server needs to be well tended in order to support the features that people want. I run a Technical Operations (DevOps, SysEng, whatever you want to call it) team...the last thing I want them spending their time doing is futzing with IRC software when there is a solution that takes 5 minutes to set up and is ready to go. Businesses should focus on their core competencies.

For me, the biggest problem was when my computer was turned off overnight, I had to go to some external source to read the transcript of the conversations that transpired rather than having it available immediately, in my application. DMs can also be sent when the user is offline, which is great for "hey, get back to me when you're back on."

I was able to solve some of these issues by setting up my own Quassel or ZNC server, but these were hacks and the clients were no where near as refined as Slack or HipChat.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#54
post #43

Well there's part of the problem. "Should I use Slack or this long list of open source options, all trickily alike?" The open source team (which I would prefer to win) would do much better if their message was "use this one, canonical, excellent option."

You say that like there's not fragmentation on the closed-source side as well, with Slack, Hipchat, Skype, etc. The reason there's competition is because ~"let's only field one perfect option" sounds great if you think you're the one with the perfect product, or you're a user whose needs are exactly like that product's pitch. In reality, user needs are diverse: there's no singular perfect product.

[deleted]

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#55
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's trivial to make a bot that sits in a channel and logs it. And it's trivial to hook up a search engine to that bot. I have actually done that, and I know it's not trivial. Few want to spend time tinkering with bots and hooking together archiving services. They want a nice Slack-type experience.

It certainly wouldn't be trivial for me, but I can't discount kefka saying it's trivial. There are lots of developers better than I am, and their trivial tasks are my extremely difficult challenges.

I just did it :)

Come to https://webchat.freenode.net/ room #hntesting

I'm kefka, and my bot is hn_kefka_bot talk and PM, and then check the Dropbox log.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#56
post #52
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be too negative but based on quick glance it would seem like the Matrix protocol is really "noisy" if compared to something like IRC (which admittedly is ridiculously spartan). How much data ends up flowing down the wires for a simple "hello world" message?

But why does it matter? Bandwidth is super-cheap.

"But why does it matter? Bandwidth is super-cheap"

If this comment is serious (and I have my doubts), I'm left speechless... Don't even know where to start. I'll just leave it here http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/28/9625062/facebook-2g-tuesd...

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#57
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's trivial to make a bot that sits in a channel and logs it. And it's trivial to hook up a search engine to that bot. I have actually done that, and I know it's not trivial. Few want to spend time tinkering with bots and hooking together archiving services. They want a nice Slack-type experience.

Well. Words are cheap. I do appreciate CDRdude speaking up for me. Here you go. http://webchat.freenode.net room #hntesting Files end up on Dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukffgmwntypfg4m/ircchatlog.txt?dl=... Searching wouldn't be too difficult. That's just loading the data up in a Hadoop and then regurgitating it. The only 'doop cluster I have now is a semi-production one. Working on getting a 150 node set…

Let me know how I can do that just by signing up, because my my job is to work on company problems, not emulate Slack in IRC all day long.

No matter how much you push and say that everything Slack offers is doable in IRC, doesn't change the fact that you still have to go through the troubles of setting that stuff up.

While I agree that setting up a bot isn't hard, I've done it for the IRC channel I created and still sit in daily, but fact of the matter is Slack is a matter of signing up and enabling a couple of features.

My job for my company is to build our product, not an internal chat tool. That's what Slack is for.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#58
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have - e.g. http://vector.im/beta on top of the Matrix.org protocol. [disclaimer, I work on Matrix]

Not to be too negative but based on quick glance it would seem like the Matrix protocol is really "noisy" if compared to something like IRC (which admittedly is ridiculously spartan). How much data ends up flowing down the wires for a simple "hello world" message?

Good question. The data you send in Matrix when transmitting and receiving a message is just the event (message) type, the room ID, and the appropriate key value data for the contents of the event. For an m.room.message event this is msgtype and body - e.g m.text and "hello world". The raw data is therefore only a handful of bytes.

Now, Matrix allows arbitrary transports to actually put that over the wire - but mandates only the most comically simple (and inefficient) as a mandatory baseline. This is a plain HTTP PUT request of the above data encoded as JSON and a few URI parts. The reason for this is that HTTP is insanely ubiquitous and well understood; any random device or language these days can trivially send and receive messages.

However, there is nothing stopping you from using a more efficient transport for the data between your client and your server - we've been experimenting with everything from boring old JSON over WebSockets to COAP or MQTT and even capnproto. We haven't specced any of these yet, but we'll probably add them as optional profiles to the spec in future. Meanwhile plain old REST actually works pretty well in practice :)

The fun stuff in Matrix is all about the eventually consistent decentralised conversation history between servers rather than obsessing about the most efficient way to shove some key value pairs between a client and a server.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#59

Why is this even an issue? Slack has nailed team chat. Slack is easy to use, they have a free plan. If you want the premium features, their pricing is very affordable. Can we stop re-inventing the wheel, just because engineers don't want to pay for software. This is the fundamental difference between founders+engineer/engineer.

It is a closed source proprietary software that requires to give up all your secrets to an unknown third party, and also pay per user for some of the features (and thus an unlimited amount if users are not employees).

Their ToS is also as abusive as it can possibly be, trying to take away your right to sue them in favor of arbitration (!), allowing them to terminate your service at any time, send your data to anyone unencrypted, disclaiming all liabilities and warranties, disallowing any content that is "objectionable", etc.

Re: Five Open-Source Slack Alternatives

#60
post #3

Can someone explain the attraction that nerds have for Slack/Hipchat over a well-tended IRC server?

As patio11 puts it: UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX UX See more: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/660931499680657409 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/660931665275916288 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/660931949645533184 https://twitter.com/patio11/statu…

Which is kind of a frustrating answer, because Slack's UX sucks. Its desktop app is just a wrapped web page; the fonts and colors match nobody's operating system; the fffffffffffffffffriendly scroll bar; all the cutesy messages and iconography; "Reconnecting…"; etc, etc.

Yes, I understand that it's still friendlier to use than IRC, but there's a middle ground between "easy to use" and "still looks and works like a proper, professional desktop application." In fact, HipChat is pretty close, even though it's just a wrapped web page too.

It's kind of frustrating to see that all of these Slack alternatives are pretty much taking the same crappy UI cues from Slack. It's kind of like how, until the last few years or so, many common Unix/Linux desktops looked like Win95 rip-offs… You don't need to strive for familiarity if what people are familiar with sucks.

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