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Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

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Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#51

Post by spectral321 »

urda wrote: post #13
lighthawk wrote: post #6

"The two internet giants (Google and Facebook) are working on an open source version control system that anyone can use to juggle code on a massive scale. It’s based on an existing system called Mercurial. “We’re attempting to see if we can scale Mercurial to the size of the Google repository,” Potvin says, indicating that Google is working hand-in-hand with programming guru Bryan O’Sullivan and others who help overs…

Because Google and Facebook are using Mercurial over Git internally. Edit: And for those that are just shocked that git isn't the answer. Facebook: https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-merc... Google: http://www.primordia.com/blog/2010/01/23/why-google-uses-mer...

Google isn't using Mercurial at any significant scale, but there is work being done to see if it can be made to work as a client for Piper.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#52

Post by thatoneguy »

comrh wrote: post #33
ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

I will say that I saw and experienced many things that changed my definition of 'large' at Google, but the most amazing was the source code control / code review / build system that kept it all together. The bad news was that it allowed people to say "I've just changed the API to to support the initiative, code released after this commit will need to be updated." and have that effect hundreds of projects, but at the…

> With the orb on their desk telling them at that their integration and unit tests were passing. Anymore info on this? Is it in house hardware?

IIRC, it was built on a hacked up Ambient Orb

http://ambientdevices.myshopify.com/products/stock-orb

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#53

Post by zaphar »

kuschku wrote: post #10

This explains quite some things. Still, this is not a very forward-thinking solution. Building and combining microservices – effectively UNIX philosophy applied to the web – is the most effective way to make progress. EDIT: Seems like I misunderstood the article – from the way I read it, it sounded like Google has a monolithic codebase, with heavily dependent products, deployed monolithically. As zaphar mentioned, it…

Google runs practically everything internally as services. Nothing about the code repository makes it impossible to run microservices. Where did you get the idea that google runs a single monolithic app for everything?

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#54

Post by captn3m0 »

kuschku wrote: post #36
thomashabets2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why Google is so unsuccessful at scaling technical solutions, unlike you they're not forward-thinking.

No, it’s not that they are unsuccessful, it’s that they are unable to maintain it properly. Already today they have tons of open security issues. Or think about April 1st, when they set a Access-Control-Location: * header on google.com because someone wrote the com.google easteregg. Read the post from the SoundCloud dude from yesterday to find out how to do software management properly (hint: modularization is everyt…

Do you have a source for the easter egg security issue? Haven't read about it anywhere, and can't seem to find anything either.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#55

Post by kuschku »

DanBC wrote: post #49
oakhaven wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

link to the post? Neither HN search nor Google search show anything to "modularization is everything".

Perhaps this? http://philcalcado.com/2015/09/08/how_we_ended_up_with_micro... ? (That question mark is part of the URL)

Yes, exactly.

It explains how even in a small company modularization can help extremely. Now look at Google, where some issues (like the google.com april 1st XSS issue) were only fixed after outsiders mentioned it.

Usually internally the team responsible for that part should have cought that.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#56

Post by cwyers »

kuschku wrote: post #36
thomashabets2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why Google is so unsuccessful at scaling technical solutions, unlike you they're not forward-thinking.

No, it’s not that they are unsuccessful, it’s that they are unable to maintain it properly. Already today they have tons of open security issues. Or think about April 1st, when they set a Access-Control-Location: * header on google.com because someone wrote the com.google easteregg. Read the post from the SoundCloud dude from yesterday to find out how to do software management properly (hint: modularization is everyt…

Yes, I'm sure Google has a lot to learn from SoundCloud about how to deploy software at scale, like that time NASA got advice from Estes Industries on how to launch rockets.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#57

Post by thatoneguy »

urda wrote: post #13
lighthawk wrote: post #6

"The two internet giants (Google and Facebook) are working on an open source version control system that anyone can use to juggle code on a massive scale. It’s based on an existing system called Mercurial. “We’re attempting to see if we can scale Mercurial to the size of the Google repository,” Potvin says, indicating that Google is working hand-in-hand with programming guru Bryan O’Sullivan and others who help overs…

Because Google and Facebook are using Mercurial over Git internally. Edit: And for those that are just shocked that git isn't the answer. Facebook: https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-merc... Google: http://www.primordia.com/blog/2010/01/23/why-google-uses-mer...

I was at Google for a long time and it was almost entirely Perforce (some Googlers used git) until it was Piper (which is very similar to Perforce). L&S used CVS at Stanford for the original Backrub/Google code and for some time after the establishment of Google, Inc.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#58

Post by kuschku »

zaphar wrote: post #53
kuschku wrote: post #10

This explains quite some things. Still, this is not a very forward-thinking solution. Building and combining microservices – effectively UNIX philosophy applied to the web – is the most effective way to make progress. EDIT: Seems like I misunderstood the article – from the way I read it, it sounded like Google has a monolithic codebase, with heavily dependent products, deployed monolithically. As zaphar mentioned, it…

Google runs practically everything internally as services. Nothing about the code repository makes it impossible to run microservices. Where did you get the idea that google runs a single monolithic app for everything?

The article claimed the code, and they way it's run, is a monolithically developed and deployed product.

If that’s not the case, I apologize for misunderstanding it.

But if it was the case, I wanted to state that it might not be wise, for the same reasons as this thread mentioned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10195423

EDIT: Thanks for telling me, though! Always nice to be proven wrong, as at least I learnt something today :D

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#59

Post by lighthawk »

grouseway wrote: post #25
lighthawk wrote: post #6

"The two internet giants (Google and Facebook) are working on an open source version control system that anyone can use to juggle code on a massive scale. It’s based on an existing system called Mercurial. “We’re attempting to see if we can scale Mercurial to the size of the Google repository,” Potvin says, indicating that Google is working hand-in-hand with programming guru Bryan O’Sullivan and others who help overs…

Why not IBM? Why not Microsoft? Is that what the HN crowd has turned into? You now have to justify the non mainstream solution like a scared mega-corp career drone who will only go with the safest bet? Git isn't so awesome that it's inconceivable that people would be willing to use something else.

> Git isn't so awesome that it's inconceivable that people would be willing to use something else.

Inconceivable? No, I just asked why. Git to me is a great solution for source control, so I want to understand it's deficiency for handling large amounts of code, especially considering it is used for managing Linux source and handles everything in GitHub I've used quite well.

Re: Google Is 2B Lines of Code, All in One Place

#60

Post by kuschku »

captn3m0 wrote: post #54
kuschku wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not that they are unsuccessful, it’s that they are unable to maintain it properly. Already today they have tons of open security issues. Or think about April 1st, when they set a Access-Control-Location: * header on google.com because someone wrote the com.google easteregg. Read the post from the SoundCloud dude from yesterday to find out how to do software management properly (hint: modularization is everyt…

Do you have a source for the easter egg security issue? Haven't read about it anywhere, and can't seem to find anything either.

Here is one: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/04/no-joke-googles-apri...

The issue was that they wanted to load the page – with the user logged in, etc – on com.google. For this they implemented an explicit URL parameter that would allow this.

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