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Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

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Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#51

Post by kordless »

pbz wrote: post #47
hosh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about nixing unhappy thoughts. A lot of people misunderstand that as the purpose of meditation. It's possible to get into bliss states through some form of concentration exercises, and among my friends, we call them bliss junkies. Rather, it's the avoidance of unhappy emotions and thoughts that create distortions, leading to neurotic emotional and mental patterns. These emotions and thoughts will aris…

Can you say a bit more about the illusion part?

Buhddha showed we are all the same, at a certain level. One big pot of consciousness, if you will. Being disciplined at presence allows for the insight of this truth. And it's repeatable by others thorough practice of certain meditaion techniques. The illusion becomes an ovious point of dissonance at that point, thus the illusion of 'self'.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#52

Post by hosh »

pbz wrote: post #47
hosh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about nixing unhappy thoughts. A lot of people misunderstand that as the purpose of meditation. It's possible to get into bliss states through some form of concentration exercises, and among my friends, we call them bliss junkies. Rather, it's the avoidance of unhappy emotions and thoughts that create distortions, leading to neurotic emotional and mental patterns. These emotions and thoughts will aris…

Can you say a bit more about the illusion part?

Some of the leading neuroscience is showing that what you conceive as the sense of self is something created by the brain. It does not exist the way you think it does.

That's not the illusion I was talking about though. It's one thing to read about that, but it's quite another to directly experience this. Like @kordless said, this is a repeatable process where you can see this for yourself. (And there's a great book written by a neuroscientist who also practices mindful meditation, and wrote about these two perspectives).

This is also not limited to the Buddhist tradition, though the sutrayana Buddhist teaches this as the primary thing and speaks the loudest about it. (There are ... realms, let's just say, beyond no-self and emptiness).

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#53

Post by hosh »

wandering2 wrote: post #50
hosh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about nixing unhappy thoughts. A lot of people misunderstand that as the purpose of meditation. It's possible to get into bliss states through some form of concentration exercises, and among my friends, we call them bliss junkies. Rather, it's the avoidance of unhappy emotions and thoughts that create distortions, leading to neurotic emotional and mental patterns. These emotions and thoughts will aris…

What do you mean by "bliss states"?

One-point concentration leads to very well-described states called jhana (dhayana). In deeper states, there can arise an orgasmic bliss, probably better than anything you can take.

There's a verse from one of Mitten & Deva Premal's songs that describe some of this bliss well:

    I stood alone at the gateless gate
    too drunk on love to hesitate
    To the winds I cast my fate
    and the remnants of my fear.
Concentration is not mindfulness meditation, though.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#54

Post by hosh »

hosh wrote: post #37
hacker_9 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is hard to explain textually as it's more about feelings you have, but if I were to try.. during meditation bad memories will enter your focus and set off a cascade of negative reactions. But the deeper into the meditation you are the harder it is to shake your focus. Instead you end up observing these patterns of thoughts and how they evoke one another. Your let them have their moment in the sun and then…

@hacker_9 there are various "acceleration" techniques to help surface things up faster.

@lostinbass I'm not sure why your two comments were marked [dead].

If you're curious about the acceleration techniques, feel free to email me. You might know some of them already.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#55

Post by DanBC »

goldfeld wrote: post #33
benihana wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be happy. I don't do meditation (and in fact get kind of irritated that practitioners of it seem to imply the only way to get in more control of your brain is through meditation), but I practice CBT. The idea is to be in greater control of your conscious and subconscious processes by being more aware of what's going on in your brain. For example, I noticed that when people make suggestions on products I work on th…

Actually you do meditation. Just because "science" finally acknowledged and formalized the power of doing what your second paragraph describes, it doesn't stop being precisely what Buddhism has advocated for millennia with insight/vipassana meditation. You actually don't have to sit down in lotus position (or lie in bed) to practice meditation, that's but a convenient time and setting of intensive practice, but the g…

CBT isn't meditation or mindfulness and there's not much similarity.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#56

Post by godDLL »

DanBC wrote: post #55
goldfeld wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually you do meditation. Just because "science" finally acknowledged and formalized the power of doing what your second paragraph describes, it doesn't stop being precisely what Buddhism has advocated for millennia with insight/vipassana meditation. You actually don't have to sit down in lotus position (or lie in bed) to practice meditation, that's but a convenient time and setting of intensive practice, but the g…

CBT isn't meditation or mindfulness and there's not much similarity.

CBT is the medical approach to mindfulness. You're looking at mindfulness through a microscope, that's why you can't quite make out the shape of the subject.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#57

Post by DanBC »

godDLL wrote: post #56
DanBC wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CBT isn't meditation or mindfulness and there's not much similarity.

CBT is the medical approach to mindfulness. You're looking at mindfulness through a microscope, that's why you can't quite make out the shape of the subject.

I don't know what to tell you - CBT has some small overlap with mindfulness, but they're not the same and there are important differences.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#58

Post by WhitneyLand »

wandering2 wrote: post #50
hosh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about nixing unhappy thoughts. A lot of people misunderstand that as the purpose of meditation. It's possible to get into bliss states through some form of concentration exercises, and among my friends, we call them bliss junkies. Rather, it's the avoidance of unhappy emotions and thoughts that create distortions, leading to neurotic emotional and mental patterns. These emotions and thoughts will aris…

What do you mean by "bliss states"?

For me, a bliss state feels similar to a runners high. As said its not the point of meditation but is enjoyable as a side effect.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#59

Post by HenryTheHorse »

pbz wrote: post #47
hosh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about nixing unhappy thoughts. A lot of people misunderstand that as the purpose of meditation. It's possible to get into bliss states through some form of concentration exercises, and among my friends, we call them bliss junkies. Rather, it's the avoidance of unhappy emotions and thoughts that create distortions, leading to neurotic emotional and mental patterns. These emotions and thoughts will aris…

Can you say a bit more about the illusion part?

Disclaimer: I'm not a Buddhist teacher. Just a practitioner for more than 10 years and have read some of the texts. For best results, talk to a real teacher.

The illusion of self is a big deal in Buddhism and it can be confusing and daunting at first, but the concept behind it is really not that difficult to grasp. (Putting it into practice is a different challenge!)

One analogy I like to use is that of an automobile. The individual parts - the engine, the wheels, the chassis, the steering wheel, the gears etc - are all necessary, but individually, none of them are the car themselves. No one would look at a seat and say "that's a nice car!" Yet, we do just that in our daily lives.

We experience anxiety and fear and say "that's ME!". We go through several bodily experiences as "I, me, mine". (Which is NOT the same as saying this body is not you. Think of the car analogy. The tears are happening to you, but the tears are NOT YOU.)

Therefore, in all Buddhist traditions, we are taught to view all experiences as fundamentally lacking any self. This body, this experience, this thought, this taste/smell/touch, nothing has the self. Those are all beautiful but empty experiences.

Hope this answered your "illusion of self" question at least partly.

Re: Cognitive mechanisms in meditation practice

#60

Post by thornofmight »

hacker_9 wrote: post #28
thornofmight wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often were you meditating and how long on average was each session?

Twice a day, morning and evening for 30 mins. I go on for an hour sometimes too. Once you get the hang of it though it is much easier to get into deeper meditation quicker. Thesedays I do 30 mins before sleep every other day. I know if I need to do more when I start feeling anxious more often in the day. Check out reddit.com/r/meditation for a place to start.

Thanks!
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