what is it then?
It's just a ride http://youtu.be/KgzQuE1pR1w
The dangerous idea that life is a story
51–60 of 64 posts
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not religion, ideology: secular humanism too seems to operate on a narrative that technological and cultural progress will continue without interruption from chaotic cosmological catastrophe, that those things contribute to human happiness while ignoring that humanity has higher rates of mental illness and slavery today than any other time in a global world culture defined for the last 200 years by technological prog…
I doubt scientific altruism is just as exploitable as religious dogma. I think the abysmal record of religion in such fields as education, race relations, gender equality, human rights, slavery, genocide, rape, the outright fighting of scientific advancements including stem cell studies, etc., can stand as its' own negation of your statement.
Religious beliefs center around sacrifice of 'earthy' norms to satisfy an ideal moral logic. That way of thinking doesn't stop when you leave the halls of worship. It leads to self-righteousness that is ultimately destructive in the world around you. Humility is not often slung from fiery pulpits, except that it is perverted for ensuring the dominance of that leader's place in moral authority.
Scientific altruism places faith in innovation. It can allow us to ignore reality, assuming someone else will fix things.
We should aspire to be scientists in our own lives. Not accepting conclusions at face value and working to improve understanding for people beyond ourselves.
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#53To make life into a story is to project onto it meaning. If you don't view life as narrative, what do your actions matter? The "happy endings, fairness, justice, heroes, villains, turnabouts, karma" JoshTriplett lists are the narrative projections which make life feel valuable in spite of life's trending towards wavering extremes of boredom and suffering. The OP's argument coincides with the Buddhist and Taoist posit…
I see meaning (and really consciousness itself) existing in a similar way that software exists in relationship to hardware. There is little meaning in the physical hardware itself, none really that we can experience directly as humans. Nevertheless, the running software contains a lot of meaning, even if it's fleeting and that information is stored in different places by different physical parts. I think this is akin to the miracle of the emergence of meaning you describe. In that way, I think meaning is about as much fiction as software, which is to say it's both real and imagined (or abstracted if you will).
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#54Everything in human existence is a narrative. The reality for human beings is a story; in fact that is all that metaphysics is a meta story about the nature of human reality. If it's not a story, then it's just one damn thing after another, which is what it really is... but we prefer our stories and narratives about how things are, versus how they actually are. All meaning is built from narratives, without narratives…
To build on your thoughts I would say that narratives are the glue that bind and distinguish our societies and give meaning to the the individuals within those societies. They are largely synonymous with religious, political and economic ideologies.
It's interesting today, in a world more connected than ever, to see how these narratives rub up against each other. It is clear that not all narratives have equal value. Older and more static narratives in particular aren't doing so great.
How would we evaluate a narrative? One way is by it's practical effects on peoples' lives and the levels of health and suffering it actively promotes, for both its adherents and opponents.
Another way is by the narrative's approximation to absolute reality. Thanks to the scientific method and its tools we are creeping closer to achieving an objective understanding of reality (although we are unlikely to ever reach one).
It seems obvious (at least to me) that understanding reality better will allow us to create better narratives and therefore enable us to think and act better. In other words, basing our actions on a narrative that is as true as possible would likely lead to better practical effects.
Of course measuring the positive or negative value of a narrative's effects is somewhat subjective, and what is 'better' for one person might not be for another, or even for the same person later on. For instance, when people use relatively poor narratives to give meaning to their suffering it might be some comfort to them (and therefore seem positive) but ultimately will lead to action that causes more suffering.
TL;DR: A better existence is achievable if we do not just accept whatever narratives are thrust upon us but instead actively refine and change them based on their practical results and to more closely approximate reality.
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#55what is it then?
"Life is a fountain."
"What does that mean? How is life a fountain?"
"... Fine, have it your way, it isn't a fountain!"
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#56To make life into a story is to project onto it meaning. If you don't view life as narrative, what do your actions matter? The "happy endings, fairness, justice, heroes, villains, turnabouts, karma" JoshTriplett lists are the narrative projections which make life feel valuable in spite of life's trending towards wavering extremes of boredom and suffering. The OP's argument coincides with the Buddhist and Taoist posit…
>>I prefer the ancient Hindu philosophical counterpart.
Actually there is no one counterpart, It is a spectrum. At one end we have the likes of Advait folks who reduce everything to an Absolute devoid of any quality, while at the other end we have the Bhakti folks who are happy chanting praises at the feet of their beloved Supreme with all qualities.
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#57To make life into a story is to project onto it meaning. If you don't view life as narrative, what do your actions matter? The "happy endings, fairness, justice, heroes, villains, turnabouts, karma" JoshTriplett lists are the narrative projections which make life feel valuable in spite of life's trending towards wavering extremes of boredom and suffering. The OP's argument coincides with the Buddhist and Taoist posit…
>>I prefer the ancient Hindu philosophical counterpart. Actually there is no one counterpart, It is a spectrum. At one end we have the likes of Advait folks who reduce everything to an Absolute devoid of any quality, while at the other end we have the Bhakti folks who are happy chanting praises at the feet of their beloved Supreme with all qualities.
You have no clue about Advaita or Bhakti.
Advaita is translated as nondual, ie. not-two, that is, the manifested is not separate from that which is the cause of the manifested (ie. that which gives rise to all is all, and everything is a modification of it).
Bhakti is a method towards the experiential realization of what I just stated, one wherein the subject-object (which in your case is the 'Bhakti folks' and their 'beloved Supreme') dichotomy collapses (or to put it in Buddhist terms, extinguishes, which is the proper translation of nirvana/nibbana) from the intensification (one can even say exaltation) of the human yearning for union.
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#58Everything in human existence is a narrative. The reality for human beings is a story; in fact that is all that metaphysics is a meta story about the nature of human reality. If it's not a story, then it's just one damn thing after another, which is what it really is... but we prefer our stories and narratives about how things are, versus how they actually are. All meaning is built from narratives, without narratives…
To build on your thoughts I would say that narratives are the glue that bind and distinguish our societies and give meaning to the the individuals within those societies. They are largely synonymous with religious, political and economic ideologies. It's interesting today, in a world more connected than ever, to see how these narratives rub up against each other. It is clear that not all narratives have equal value.…
you get it.
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#59Life is a obviously an open-ended sandbox game.
See also the /r/outside subreddit, full of gems like "Please nerf the inheritance system." and "Question: why can't I understand most other players?"
> "Please nerf the inheritance system."
The random spawn system is broken in that game!
Re: The dangerous idea that life is a story
#60To make life into a story is to project onto it meaning. If you don't view life as narrative, what do your actions matter? The "happy endings, fairness, justice, heroes, villains, turnabouts, karma" JoshTriplett lists are the narrative projections which make life feel valuable in spite of life's trending towards wavering extremes of boredom and suffering. The OP's argument coincides with the Buddhist and Taoist posit…
The Taoist position is more nuanced than to have "a lack of attachment". The lack of attachment is so you wouldn't feel compelled to force the existence of mental constructs like family, culture, love, hate, beauty, honor, good, evil, progress. Imagine if the law prescribed the words you can say to your parents/brothers/sisters/friends/shopkeepers. You may be saying "Thank you so much" to the shopkeeper, but by being forced to do it, the meaning behind "Thank you so much" is completely lost.
The Taoist position is not to have no narrative. It is to apply relentless non-interference to things, people, and ideas that are in our lives. It is only by standing back, feeling unattached, doing nothing coercive, that family, culture, love, hate, beauty, honor, good, evil, and progress arise naturally, so you can experience life to the fullest.
e.g. By trying to force a relationship/family/reunion/ideas into happening, it breaks it, and what was going to be, no longer will be.