India (2002) • Hacker News Board

Re: India (2002)

#51

Post by kalyanganjam » Wed, Sep 02, 2015, 8:55 PM UTC

1024core wrote: post #48

1971genocide wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. But you are not giving India enough credit. India has a corruption problem - and so does the americans, british, europeans, etc . Hell The LIBOR scandal is on 900 trillion dollars. And this is before I bring up 2008. Privatization is not that answer. Look at the situation at Bangladesh if you want to see what privatization leads to.

Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe. Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here. In any case: just because it's in some other country, makes it all right to do it in India, right? Instead of racing for the bottom, why not try racing to the top, and compare India to Sweden, Norway, etc.? Secondly:…

>>Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe.

Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo...

>>Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here.

Incorrect. Read the link above

>>In any case: just because it's in some other country, makes it all right to do it in India, right?

am 99.99% sure poster is not suggesting it is right thing. Hust saying it is not an India only problem and that it exists everywhere.

Re: India (2002)

#52

Post by mehuln » Wed, Sep 02, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

a9entroy wrote: post #43

gnufied wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factually if we take each point in the Article, a lot has changed and yet not enough: 1. You can get cross country SIM card easily in India today. 2. Taxes for IT business is uniform (no incentive for export per se) 3. Indian IT industry did just fine during bubble burst so Author's cyncism was bit misplaced. 4. Indian aviation industry is fierecly competitive. Today no one worries about future of Air India not becau…

Sim cards charge heavily for "roaming" in other states. A sim card still truly belongs to only one state. Despite the tax reform, doing any business in India is still a hassle nevertheless. Indian aviation industry may be competitive, but can a middle-class family really afford an airplane ticket ? No. They are only afforded the option of a second class train ticket which have toilets worse than the one shown in Trai…

The Raj - or the consequence of The Raj are still ubiquitous. They were moving in right direction with BJP in charge (and talking about capitalism only not other issues). Last 10 years of Congress has stifled lot of the progress that Narshima Rao's Gov started.

Re: India (2002)

#53

Post by ashwinaj » Wed, Sep 02, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #22

ashwinaj wrote: post #17

This seems like an outdated story (seems like it's a 2001 article). (I'm ignoring fundamental problems like corruption etc. below) As far as the anti-foreign investment sentiment goes, it sounds repulsive on face value, but those of us (Indians) who've lived in the US would want a Walmart (just as an example) destroying all the mom and pop shops? I think a cautious approach for foreign investment is the way to go, th…

As a person who's shopped at both walmart and local "mom and pop shops", yes. We also want Uber or Ola destroying the local taxi industry, and providing safer and better service to consumers. We want Flipkart or Amazon destroying local retail, Toyota destroying local automotive, etc. Big scary (sometimes foreign) players only manage to "destroy" a local industry when the local industry is failing to satisfy local cus…

I agree, but my point is that it should be done conservatively. And you're ignoring the plight of people employed by these companies entirely (which could be you). Here's Uber in the news just lately: http://fortune.com/2015/09/02/uber-lawsuit/

Uber's valuation is: http://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-valued-at-more-than-50-bill...

One might disagree with this valuation, let's assume it's 1/10 th of it. Can they provide health insurance to their drivers? Absolutely yes, but they're solely interested in revenue and being profitable. I don't want to sound like an Uber basher, this is true for most companies; they operate in their own self interest which they arguably should. It's up to the govt. to act as a counter balance to blatantly unjust policies adopted by companies.

Re: India (2002)

#54

Post by 1024core » Wed, Sep 02, 2015, 10:51 PM UTC

kalyanganjam wrote: post #51

1024core wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe. Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here. In any case: just because it's in some other country, makes it all right to do it in India, right? Instead of racing for the bottom, why not try racing to the top, and compare India to Sweden, Norway, etc.? Secondly:…

>>Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe. Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo... >>Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here. In…

>> Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo....

Having in lived in India most of my life, I don't need to read an Economist article to find out what corruption is. Want to get a passport? Pay a bribe. Want to construct an addition to you house? Pay a bribe (or just do it illegally). The list goes on. In countries like US, Sweden, Canada, etc at least you're not hammered with corruption requests in your day-to-day existence.

Re: India (2002)

#55

Post by IkmoIkmo » Wed, Sep 02, 2015, 11:33 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #19

guybrushT wrote: post #15

There are 2 amazing things about this article: 1. It was written a while ago, and the general description of the country and its problems are just as true. 2. This quote: "In the eastern section of India, there is a company called Bengal Fertilizer, which was built in the early nineties. The government spent $1.2 billion on it and it took seven years to complete. It now employs 1550 people with complete work schedule…

> A good piece of writing - quite critical about the country, but also comes from a place of affection for the country. I'm not sure where you're reading "affection" from. Rogers has been predicting and even actively cheerleading India's financial decline consistently for literally two decades. He even closes the article with a claim that is laughably ignorant[0] of historical facts, and just reeks of colonial apolog…

Agreed, in fact just last week I was just watching a Dutch program I recalled watching back in 2005 when I was a teenager, it was basically a conversation that Rogers and Marc Faber and another guy had on their ideas of the future. Then India came along and he was incredibly negative and dismissive and that stood out to me as being over the top. Here I am a week later, surprised to see a topic on just that (Rogers about India) and not surprised to find comments like yours.

Re: India (2002)

#56

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 3:09 AM UTC

ashwinaj wrote: post #53

yummyfajitas wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who's shopped at both walmart and local "mom and pop shops", yes. We also want Uber or Ola destroying the local taxi industry, and providing safer and better service to consumers. We want Flipkart or Amazon destroying local retail, Toyota destroying local automotive, etc. Big scary (sometimes foreign) players only manage to "destroy" a local industry when the local industry is failing to satisfy local cus…

I agree, but my point is that it should be done conservatively. And you're ignoring the plight of people employed by these companies entirely (which could be you). Here's Uber in the news just lately: http://fortune.com/2015/09/02/uber-lawsuit/ Uber's valuation is: http://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-valued-at-more-than-50-bill... One might disagree with this valuation, let's assume it's 1/10 th of it. Can they provide…

I'm not ignoring them. I simply believe that the benefits to consumers drastically outweigh the harms to producers in every case I've ever seen. I've also observed that in practice that politicians basically don't care about consumers at all.

Also, the "plight" of Uber employees described in that article is that Uber gave them gigs better than their other alternatives, making them better off. But now they are trying to grab more money from Uber via politics. That's a flaw with the political system, not Uber.

Lastly, related to your suggestion that Uber should provide health insurance to drivers, read this essay. It's a wonderful observation about people's thought processes on such topics: http://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethi...

Re: India (2002)

#57

Post by kalyanganjam » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 4:40 AM UTC

1024core wrote: post #54

kalyanganjam wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Corruption may be a problem in the US too, but, having lived here for a decade, I can assure you I've never been asked nor offered a single bribe. Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo... >>Corruption doesn't affect the common man directly here. In…

>> Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo... . Having in lived in India most of my life, I don't need to read an Economist article to find out what corruption is. Want to get a passport? Pay a bribe. Want to construct an addition to you house? Pay a b…

What you are describing is bribery. Corruption is a closely related and slightly different thing.

Re: India (2002)

#58

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 4:41 AM UTC

kalyanganjam wrote: post #57

1024core wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Not being asked for bribe is not necessarily absence of corruption. For a crash course on How Real world corruption works. Great place to start is https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/c84bp/how_realwo... . Having in lived in India most of my life, I don't need to read an Economist article to find out what corruption is. Want to get a passport? Pay a bribe. Want to construct an addition to you house? Pay a b…

What you are describing is bribery. Corruption is a closely related and slightly different thing.

Bribery is a form of corruption.

Re: India (2002)

#59

Post by kalyanganjam » Thu, Sep 03, 2015, 6:54 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #58

kalyanganjam wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is bribery. Corruption is a closely related and slightly different thing.

Bribery is a form of corruption.

>Bribery is a form of corruption.

Agreed

By "Corruption is a closely related and slightly different thing" I meant the same thing. My point is non existence of bribery does not automatically translate to no corruption.