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China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

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Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#491

Post by bijowo1676 »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #452
xandrius wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting/funny is that the American LLM companies took from the public domain and copyrighted work to close all that content into a box they charge for. Then the Chinese took the distilled stuff out from that box and released it into the world for everyone.

So, OpenAI and Anthropic say the Chinese models are only as good because they distill their models. How true is that. I am sure it adds something. But is it more like a marginal 1% improvement or something really significant?

if distilling was so easy and could give you frontier LLM on openai/anthropic output, then how come there are no hundreds of frontier labs in the US market, all distilling and competing for the TRILLION dollar market valuation ????

its all bs spread by oai/anthropic in order to ban open weight models and monopolize the market for two US companies and protect their trillion dollar valuations

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#493

Post by bluGill »

Levitz wrote: post #313
bluGill wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it weaken the US though? It weakens the big providers but most of the economy is in companies buying and this helps them save money.

Yes, it damages its image, this is further made evident given the amount of propaganda that follows each time. Why would you invest in claude or codex if you just read how China's stuff is better?

Image is not the economy. AI is a large part of the stock market, but a much smaller share of the economy.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#494

Post by zer00eyz »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #490
hyperbovine wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try instructing Codex to (say) fine-tune a language model based on a collection of books you've got saved. You will find yourself admonished, repeatedly and at length, not to utilize copyrighted materials to train language models, by an AI who owes its entire existence to that very act. These models might be smart but they're not close to being able to savor irony.

in case of chatgpt/anthropic, the LLM model simply represents the hypocrisy of their owners

You miss spelled the word stupidity.

Anthropic is, in particular, bent about safety. The problem is they are concerned about yesterday's threats.

The models that are out, and can be run locally, already open a pandoras box of concerns that we will never be able to put back.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#496

Post by ericmay »

jbm wrote: post #475
ericmay wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem (right now) is that Open Weight models depend right now on huge companies to spend billion of dollars to train and develop them, all backed up by their incentives and their state to support this, while essentially giving away their monetization path. Right... and there are two problems with this: 1. Eventually the capabilities of closed-weight models will just vastly outstrip open-weight models if the u…

> Open-source software isn't a moral good Yes it is.

Prove it

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#497

Post by ericmay »

cyanydeez wrote: post #406
ericmay wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem (right now) is that Open Weight models depend right now on huge companies to spend billion of dollars to train and develop them, all backed up by their incentives and their state to support this, while essentially giving away their monetization path. Right... and there are two problems with this: 1. Eventually the capabilities of closed-weight models will just vastly outstrip open-weight models if the u…

Did you just assume the singularity?

No

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#498

Post by ilovecake1984 »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #479
geophile wrote: post #352

The lesson of the last 50 years of the computer and software marketplace is that free and low-end eventually wins. - PCs destroyed minicomputers. Mainframes survive, but serving a much tinier portion of the market than they used to. - PC office productivity software destroyed expensive professional products. - Windows (low end) and Linux (free) completely destroyed the UNIX marketplace, and again, have taken huge mar…

> free and low-end eventually wins Not in SaaS which is what LLMs are. You can get VMs for much cheaper than AWS, Microsoft, and Google offer them but large companies (and startups) are happy to pay a premium for the support, reputation, and reliability that they perceive those companies as offering. Same thing for some of the managed database providers who are effectively selling a very heavily marked up version of…

There will always be a space for perforce in a world of git.

Doesn’t mean perforce is worth trillions.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#499

Post by lagrange77 »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #34

AI models cost tens of millions to train. Offering them for free won’t justify the upfront costs. The Chinese model of model training/open sourcing only makes sense in the context of the overall strategy of undercutting American frontier labs’ profit margins.

I'm genuinely curious:

Is that maybe spilled milk?

Maybe today's US frontier models provide enough information content, so that the momentum suffices to use them as a base for every coming generation of distilled and later fine-tuned models?

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#500

Post by mistrial9 »

jbm wrote: post #451
hyperbovine wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try instructing Codex to (say) fine-tune a language model based on a collection of books you've got saved. You will find yourself admonished, repeatedly and at length, not to utilize copyrighted materials to train language models, by an AI who owes its entire existence to that very act. These models might be smart but they're not close to being able to savor irony.

I was a little radicalized when ChatGPT literally refused to translate parts of 1000+ year old religious texts and told me it was due to copyright concerns.

apocryphal !
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