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Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

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Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#491

Post by kakacik »

sandreas wrote: post #395

While I somehow like the fact that Microsoft is trying to compete, their problem stays the same: There are too many people involved. - Nvidia - Mediatek - Microsoft - Windows team - Surface team - Marketing team - ... The main advantage of Apple is and will be, that they control the hardware AND the software / firmware completely and can make devices that feel completely cohesive. That's the reason Framework has an a…

Yeah, apple, they can be huge a-holes simply because they can. Your integration story is nice, but same company does this actively: If you have airpods pro (2nd gen in this case) that kept working fine with apple phone, but then you got tired/annoyed/disgusted by their OS and ecosystem and migrated to Samsung S24 (my wife' story), those plugs effectively stop working via bluetooth.

Disconnects, no good ANC, pairing is beyond miserable. Use them again with another iphone and they work fine. Now somebody could claim apple engineers are so incompetent they can't implement basic bluetooth connection that plugs from china for 10 bucks can do better but I have problem believing that.

So that tight integration you praise so much can be absolute curse for arrogant behavior that apple is definitely not stranger to. Open standards and competition forces companies to behave nicely and ie buy bluetooth plugs without worry if any source device will work with it, not some wishful thinking. Main reason I never owned apple device and most probably never will, just insulting behavior towards me as paying customer.

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#492

Post by zahllos »

fodkodrasz wrote: post #443
pmontra wrote: post #435

Every time I read something like "completely redefines professional computing" I think that somebody in the marketing department didn't do a good enough job to disguise a sponsored content, or at the very least didn't review what the independent author wrote. Anyway, what I like of this machine is the 15" screen with a keyboard without a numberpad: the center of the body of the user can be aligned with the center of…

I'm curious about the openness of the platform. As long as the openness and standardization of the PC platform is not present, this platform is not a contender of x86 in my eyes. We can see with the highly praised Apple M platform on the example of the Asahi Linux what the lack of openness brings: people are locked in to operating systems by the vendors, and planned obsolescence, even with long support periods. On th…

There is ARM SystemReady in a couple of flavours, one of which is UEFI: https://documentation-service.arm.com/static/68512137d12d1a1...

While I'm not exactly enthused about UEFI I prefer this to android's fork-the-kernel-tree-and-abandon model for your pocket-SBC. The last device I used with this booted fedora using arm UEFI no issue, several years ago.

I don't see x86 going away for a long while if at all - too much software is built for it so the inertia is massive.

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#493

Post by kergonath »

DeathArrow wrote: post #453
camillomiller wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyway, what I like of this machine is the 15" screen with a keyboard without a numberpad: the center of the body of the user can be aligned with the center of the screen. The screen seems to be particularly bright, which is good. There are claims of good self repairability, we will see when it starts to sell. Oh you mean like the incredible MacBook Pros of the last two generations that have been selling like hotcak…

Apple wouldn't ever do something like that. "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

This quote is terribly misunderstood. "Steal" here means "make it your own", as in, improve it, not "copy slavishly". What it means is that to be great you have to find good ideas and then execute.

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#494

Post by numpad0 »

whatever1 wrote: post #386
thewebguyd wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docks are horrifying products. Thunderbolt docks are doubly horrifying. I believe it. From all my years as a sysadmin, docks were by far the second largest source of headaches (after printers). Super high failure rate, all kinds of quirks, shoddy power delivery. And these weren't some cheap amazon basics dongles, I'm talking the $250+ docks from Dell, Lenovo, etc.

Docks ok. But why printers are such a hot mess? For the past 20 years they could have been just webservers that we send REST requests to. But no, we had to install random drivers on our machines, get blue screens and have to plug and unplug the printers until they get reset properly.

Because everyone wants 100% PostScript-compatible printers and nothing else.

The PostScript was created by ex-PARC people as they were founding a small startup called Adobe Systems, and it was chosen by Apple for its revolutionary 1985 LaserWriter printer. LaserWriter was partially OEM'd by Canon, and its competitors couldn't simply steal the protocol; most others to date use a 100% compatible proprietary protocols that, IIUC, aren't internally that much different from it. And PostScript later became the basis for Adobe's other publishing data formats, including PDF, which means pdf/ai/psd is 100% guaranteed WYSIWYG. macOS 10.x also partially uses PDF to render desktop.

and this ^ is why.

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#495

Post by numpad0 »

chihuahua wrote: post #262
als0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was still better than the competition Plenty of cases where Surface isn't. Microsoft like to think they can make hardware but they're no better than other OEM and it's clearly not a focus for them

When I worked at Microsoft (years ago), some employees had Surface laptops. They frequently had issues where the laptop just wasn't working right and required rebooting, at the start of a meeting where they wanted to connect the Surface laptop to a projector. Always the Surfaces, never the Lenovos. One of the Surface things split into two parts, the screen (containing the actual computer) and the keyboard. There was…

The bottom half of Surface Laptop(with the bending snake hinge) is a not-the-Thunderbolt dock. It has an optional GPU and fan in addition to what's obviously in it. So you're attaching battery at different SOC, and PCIe device, and keyboard and such, all at once, when the thing appears. No surprise that such a thing is not so reliable.

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#496

Post by camillomiller »

DeathArrow wrote: post #453
camillomiller wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyway, what I like of this machine is the 15" screen with a keyboard without a numberpad: the center of the body of the user can be aligned with the center of the screen. The screen seems to be particularly bright, which is good. There are claims of good self repairability, we will see when it starts to sell. Oh you mean like the incredible MacBook Pros of the last two generations that have been selling like hotcak…

Apple wouldn't ever do something like that. "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

In fact no, not in this “let’s throw some more shit at the wall and see what sticks” way

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#497

Post by sandreas »

kakacik wrote: post #491
sandreas wrote: post #395

While I somehow like the fact that Microsoft is trying to compete, their problem stays the same: There are too many people involved. - Nvidia - Mediatek - Microsoft - Windows team - Surface team - Marketing team - ... The main advantage of Apple is and will be, that they control the hardware AND the software / firmware completely and can make devices that feel completely cohesive. That's the reason Framework has an a…

Yeah, apple, they can be huge a-holes simply because they can. Your integration story is nice, but same company does this actively: If you have airpods pro (2nd gen in this case) that kept working fine with apple phone, but then you got tired/annoyed/disgusted by their OS and ecosystem and migrated to Samsung S24 (my wife' story), those plugs effectively stop working via bluetooth. Disconnects, no good ANC, pairing i…

I think we have a misunderstanding here...

I'm done with Apple for years, probably forever. It is hard to look at the MacBook knowing it's the best hardware and still not buy it, but I chose Openness and right to repair and will buy a framework 13 pro as soon as I can afford it.

Your story is exactly the reason I'm not buying Apple any more. However, knowing that Google does prevent the headphones longpress / hold from being handled in any audio app at the OS level is not really better and I simply have to admit, Apple does some things really well.

That said, the problem stays the same: Microsoft trying to release a notebook that can compete with Apples much smaller and tightly integrated portfolio is probably prone to fail.

I'm still glad for every alternative out there. Although I don't believe that Intel + NVidia will have a much better integration than amd strix halo in the HP Zbook G1a

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#498

Post by schmorptron »

jwrallie wrote: post #442
N-Krause wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Depending on how easy it is to run Linux on this as opposed to the new MacBooks may make this attractive for Linux users. Why? Just to get ARM? Buy a brand that actually works with the kernel and distros to get their hardware working with linux. Get your money to the people that actually help the software ecosystem. When you spent premium, put your money where it makes a difference.

For laptops, what I had in mind is excellent power management and efficiency, it seems to correlate with ARM but I think most people don’t really care for the details of architecture.

the new intel ultra whatevername 3 series seems to come a bit closer there, so the framework pro with its explicit linux support might be an option

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#499

Post by Alifatisk »

This sounds very exciting to me, however, the fact that it is a Windows laptop makes me sigh a bit. Why? Because they often seem to lack the fundamental experience that MacBooks have nailed.

I have tried many touchpads, but nothing comes close to MacBooks. The tracking feels incredibly precise and consistent. The same goes for the speakers. It is surprising that no other laptop manufacturer has matched the sound quality Apple delivers. That is frustrating, because I genuinely want that same experience on a different system. I do not want to feel locked into MacBooks. I know the Youtube channel Dave2D did a video on this experience as well [1][2].

Another issue is how Windows laptops degrade over time. No matter how many I have tried, they eventually end up in a state where the fans spin up for no clear reason, the battery drains quickly, and I start getting notifications about low disk space even though I have not installed much.

When I check the “Uninstall or remove apps” section, it does not clearly show what is actually taking up space. I often have to use tools like WinDirStat to discover leftover files from applications I already removed. These remnants build up and contribute to the system feeling bloated.

I also start noticing small but frustrating delays, like the lag between pressing the Windows key and the Start menu appearing.

BUT I do have an idea though, Nvidia will hopefully support Linux kernel, so if I have the opportunity to switch to one of these new machines, I might just swap out Windows with a Linux distro instead. Linux Mint perhaps. I am open for suggestions on good distros, specifically for daily use as home computer for both office use and browsing the web, maybe even play indie-games.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYB931iUjc

2. https://youtu.be/h26FlWu7aDc?si=FN8FG9EY0eMJ67fU&t=313

Re: Microsoft builds MacBook Pro rival with NVIDIA-powered Surface Laptop Ultra

#500

Post by chubs »

numpad0 wrote: post #494
whatever1 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docks ok. But why printers are such a hot mess? For the past 20 years they could have been just webservers that we send REST requests to. But no, we had to install random drivers on our machines, get blue screens and have to plug and unplug the printers until they get reset properly.

Because everyone wants 100% PostScript-compatible printers and nothing else. The PostScript was created by ex-PARC people as they were founding a small startup called Adobe Systems, and it was chosen by Apple for its revolutionary 1985 LaserWriter printer. LaserWriter was partially OEM'd by Canon, and its competitors couldn't simply steal the protocol; most others to date use a 100% compatible proprietary protocols t…

What if computers simply rendered 300dpi PNG files and sent that to the printer?
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