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Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

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Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#491
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, yet another proof, there's the part of HN crowd which is passive aggressive, dismissive, and dishonest in the very scientific possible sense. Won't make my day harder than it is, but is a very weak signal. If I'm to be offended by a single thing in your post that is calling me (names) - is AI Bro. This was undeserved, and cannot be farther from the truth. Not to miss the fact your comment is entirely off topi…

This seems like a very emotional response, which is off-topic for HN. Consider using facts and logic to make calm, rational arguments.

What facts did parent use? What facts did u use? Which particular emotion do you imply in you response?

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I'm not saying we can't have nice things or build more secure software. I think we can build more secure software! But the argument I'm responding to is one that I've seen many times over the years on HN and elsewhere, which is some form of "capability based programming languages fix everything". It's always posited as obvious and easy, as if merely saying "capability based language" is the only explanation requi…

> "capability based programming languages fix everything" There is some truth to this idea, though. Setting aside the unsafe boundary, (FFI, direct MMIO access, etc.) a capability system in a programming language would solve some kinds of these problems. Not all; it doesn't solve logic bugs when a capability is in scope. > It's always posited as obvious and easy I do believe it's probably pretty obviously true, by no…

We agree that a properly sandboxable capability-capable (ugh, lol) language would indeed be a really good security upgrade. I was sad when the SecurityManager died for that reason, even though the reasoning was very understandable.

But those claims have also got to be moderated. As no such thing has ever existed, we can't truly know how well it'd work in practice. Only experience can tell us that.

Global state is one of the key issues. Joe-E simply banned it, which is far too harsh and breaks almost everything. Mobile operating systems locked down filesystem access behind permissions and capabilities quite dramatically and were much more secure, but that came with a lot of 'vigorous' debate over owner control and power for productivity/pro-grade applications. macOS has taken an incremental approach and sandboxes off parts of the FS from apps whilst retaining what looks on the surface like a classical global shared state $HOME and / directory (although it's not).

macOS, iOS, Android and Windows have all been steadily moving code out of the kernel over the years. Apple doesn't run the core FS in a userspace process but every other FS that's not as performance sensitive is now a userspace daemon, for instance. They developed their own FUSE equivalent to do this. In Windows a lot moved out in Vista. Graphics, audio, printing, a lot of drivers are out of kernel now.

Linux has lagged behind quite badly in this respect partly because a microkernel design requires close cooperation between userspace and kernel space but the Linux design philosophy is that the kernel is a self-contained artifact.

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#493
post #408

This was always a nightmare waiting to happen. The sheer mass of packages and the consequent vast attack surface for supply chain attacks was always a problem that was eventually going to blow up in everyone's face. But it was too convenient. Anyone warning about it or trying to limit the damage was shouted down by people who had no experience of any other way of doing things. "import antigravity" is just too easy to…

Blaming the victim is too easy. NPM is unsafe at any speed. You cannot use it in any but the most trivial capacities without opening yourself up to supply chain attacks. Why is npm the only package ecosystem that has so many problems? What are the other package system owners doing better? Let’s start there, instead of blaming the victims.

This is talking about Linux packages. So no, not just npm.

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that they are both based on Unix and (generally) made to run on x86 processors. Which is a pretty big similarity

Linux is not based on Unix. AFAIK it was inspired by Unix, but does not actually share anything.

And BSD is UNIX, at least technically.

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#495
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had none of those issues on Fedora 44, FWIW.

ditto. my upgrade from 43 - 44 went very smooth

Turns out it was a pipewire.conf file causing some sort of crash (nothing in logs show anything). If I remove that file, everything works.

FYI this was on a laptop that began life from version 42. My main PC started out on 38 and has made it to 43 with no problems (including a motherboard swap).. will be updating to 44 this weekend.

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#496

Fun fact: You still can't build the vllm container with updated dependencies since llmlite got pwned. Either due to regression bugs, or due to impossible transient dependencies in the dependency tree that are not resolvable. There is just too much slopcode down the line, and too many dependencies relying on pinned outdated (and unpublished) dependencies. I switched to llama.cpp because of that. To me it feels more an…

slopcode is a pejorative that means nothing to me. if you have an actual criticism to make, then do it

If I am not allowed to criticize software stability or lack thereof, what am I allowed to criticize? The color of the terminal output or what? What is an "actual criticism" for you?

Re: Maybe you shouldn't install new software for a bit

#497
post #367
post #136

To mitigate supply chain attacks like this, I've taken to specifying exact versions in my Rust cargo.toml, and when importing new crates, select the previous-to-latest version. Is this a reasonable mitigation? It bugs me that Swift deprecates the concept of specifying exact versions, it actively pushes you towards semver which leaves the door open to this.

Cargo will still pick the latest for transitive dependencies that aren't explicitly specified in your Cargo.toml. This is what Cargo.lock is for.

Oh good point, I didn't think of transitive dependencies. A lot of languages i've worked with unfortunately have a 'do not check in the lockfile' culture, and a common 'blow away the lockfile when the package manager gets stuck' workflow, so that does concern me. Perhaps Cargo is better than average though, and the lockfile never needs nuking, providing this safety. This sounds like a good reason to check in the lockfile! Thanks for the response.
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