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Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

drive.com.au

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Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to acknowledge the user likely has above average faculties. “why would anyone use Dropbox,” “you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem”. Zero times I’ve run out of gas. Don’t we pass someone walking with a gas can on the highway every year though? Dangerous, slightly safer if…

> Don’t we pass someone walking with a gas can on the highway every year though? No. I see something like that every year on television, but not in the real world. If you've seen something like that every year, let me ask you a question: was the gas can empty or full? Gait while lugging five gallons of gas looks very different than gait while slinging around an empty can. Then, ask yourself whether or not you (or any…

Successful gaitcheck buddy, satisfying insight behind that question

Accordingly I must revise my estimate down :D _(as useful as an eyewitness!)_ I could probably commute all year without seeing a walking gas can or a tow truck filling a car on the roadside. It is difficult to estimate how long I might go before seeing either one of those things again. Maybe next time I will take notice of the vehicle model+year and driver’s demographic.

Maybe I will see an invasive fuel minder system on TV first haha

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#492
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a W123 can be complex compared to something like a spartan 1979 Dodge Aspen. Electric power windows, vacuum-operated power locks, telescopic steering column, power-adjustable mirrors, a radio that does AM and FM... Fancy stuff seemed pretty common on those (awesome, stout) German luxury cars. The more I think about it and read comments here, the less sure I am that the gilded age of simple, reliable cars has eve…

The self-leveling hydraulic suspension in the W123 wagon was also a complication. The climate control system was failure prone, but failed in a sensible way--when the control unit failed it would no longer maintain a set temperature, but would still work as an open-loop system. The cruise control "computer" (completely analog device) was also prone to failure. But the thing is all that stuff was implemented simply, r…

Now it's reminding me more of the E36 I used to drive.

Dual-zone auto temperature control failed? Heat still works, at least -- the "all the way on" position for the driver's side temperature knob was not a potentiometer, but was instead simple switch that opened the valves. Not perfect, but not complete failure: Good enough to get from A to B without the window fogging or freezing in the cold.

But those manifold, solenoid heater valve assemblies would split open. The valve seats would rot. The former issue was and end-of-the-ride situation; the latter just let them bypass when they shouldn't. That was an expensive assembly.

That era of BMW allowed parts makers to brand their stuff, and the only American-made part I ever found on the car was an HVAC control module -- which, coincidentally, is the only electronics box that ever died on it. ;)

Despite the awesome hose clamps (which I understand to be DIN standard 3017 A -- you might see if those are what you remember from the W123 days), nearly everything about the car was a cooling-related system issue. The upper necks would just break off of the radiators, though they were flawless until that point. The water pump impellers were all initially made with plastic and those all failed (scattering bits to the nether regions), then they switched to metal, and then an improved plastic that seemed better. There were two cooling fans; one two-speed electric, and one crank-driven fan with a clutch -- one for each side of the radiator. The former worked well. The latter tended to eventually explode. It worked OK with only the electric one in-place, though. And the hoses were very good.

I never had a factory shop manual for it, but Bentley book was very good.

Except the instructions in the Bentley book for replacing the cabin air filter (luxury!) were wrong -- they missed a giant, black bolt at the top, center of that inside of that black, dark glove box. Those wrong instructions lead to ~every E36's glove box to eventually sag as people go WTF and start tearing way more things apart than was necessary and tugging on them in ways that they should not be tugged on.

There were more cool parts. The engine bay sure seemed crowded, but it was easy to get around that: The airbox, intake plenum, and MAF came right out, along with the Bowden-connected cruise control motor, with a couple of M8 nuts and a hose clamp from the factory toolkit and one tidy-AF twist-lock electrical connector. That made all kinds of room to get to most of the important stuff and literally took less than a minute with some practice.

Like the idle air control valve. It was under the intake manifold and it needed a drop of oil in the right spot every 5 or 10 years to keep working right, but it wasn't bad to get to at all with that area opened up.

The fuses were plug-in blade fuses that could be replaced inexpensively with a trip to any auto parts store or most 24-hour gas stations, but they were special in their own way: They were visually inspectable. Rather than appearing as a flat stamping of fusible metal that was inscrutable without pulling them out one at a time, there were two legs that supported a length of fusible wire at the top of the overall plastic body. That fusible wire could be plainly seen with the fuses in-situ. (I haven't figured out how to buy this style inexpensively, but I'd sure like to.)

BMW parts tended to be surprisingly inexpensive, and also easy to find. BMW's ETK parts index is an amazing and simple resource, and websites like realoem.com have the important bits online. Being armed with a real part number made it trivial to find exactly the right thing, and since the OE parts tended to be branded it was easy to bypass the dealership and get one from the same manufacturer that made the one that already lasted 20 years.

The grease on the window regulators would eventually turn viscous and sticky and glue-like, which lead them to break. But the part that would break was a little platic widget that was available separately, and only cost about $2.50 from the dealership parts counter. Straighten out the skeleton with some hand tools, spin the wheel on which manner of grease to use this time, snap on the new slidey-widgets and it's back rolling again.

The door cards came off easily and were principally made of a molded wood product that just didn't fail, and this lack of failure was promoted by the plastic vapor barrier being held in-place on the steel door frame with plain ol' butyl rubber so it could be removed and reinstalled over and over again without the adhesive dying, or easily-refreshed if that became necessary.

What else? Oil changes were easy and could be accomplished with factory-supplied tools (if a person could find a pit to work in, or sufficient desperation) -- the drain plug and the wheel bolts use the same size wrench. It required a new crush washer, but unlike my Honda those washers were always included in the box with a new filter. And that oil filter was top, front, and center: Open the hood and there it is, completely unoccluded.

The materials and coatings for the metals were good. Mine eventually started showing some body rust, but I drove it all winter, every winter, through the salt brine-soaked roads of northern Ohio. But the important stuff underneath -- like the stuff relating to the fuel filter and brake lines and exhaust -- simply didn't rot.

They're lovely cars to work on, which is good because there was plenty to work on as time ticked on.

I got nearly 300k miles out of mine, which is pretty good for a car that was designed with clay models instead of CAD. :)

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happening, best example is worldwide grounding of Boeing 737 MAX. It was China who triggered it, not US authorities (protecting US corporation). Similar thing with batteries on airplanes, tube trains, ferries and underground garages. China cares about fire hazard, other countries care about ideology.

Too bad they don't care so much about factory worker safety or slave labor

The country I live in has a specific cutout for allowing slavery for incarcerated people.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the car actually drives itself completely, I think they will be safer than human drivers. All of these half measures are pretty concerning to me. I think they let drivers feel more comfortable, despite paying less attention, and I think their failure modes may often be much worse than the (human-driven) crashes they purport to prevent. Anecdote: I once had a rental car with alane-keeping assistance system that w…

It's hard to believe a car exists that ignores steering input. I suspect you just didn't try hard enough. Perhaps because it was a last-minute decision, you weren't very confident it was safe to change lanes and chose to give up some decision making to the car? > the hypothetical accident there would have been a comparatively minor fender bender. Youtube will tell you that bumping into someone sideways at highway spe…

Oh, I suspect you can overpower it, if that's what you mean. However, if you weren't expecting it'd do something like that in the first place, it can accomplish a nonzero change to your trajectory before you intervene.

Believe me or don't, but, if you operate a vehicle with these assistive systems, I encourage you to carefully familiarize yourself with the ways in which they may unexpectedly affect its behaviour.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#495
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they? The id.Polo (I think the first car to come out since VW said they were reversing course there) has quite a lot of buttons. Like arguably a comical number of buttons.

Yeah, newest Polo seems to have physical controls now. By all models released after their statement two and half years ago came with shitty capacitive clusters.

Which models are these? Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID._series the only one released since (before the 2026 models) is the ID.7 Tourer, which does have buttons.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#496
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently some engines now have a solenoid-operated shroud that pops up to surround the water pump impeller, so if the coolant is still warming up it doesn't circulate. This is supposed to reduce the parasitic load on the engine from the ancillaries. I can't help but think that the water pump must require about 3 brake gerbil power to turn, and the weight of the solenoid, plunger, spring, shroud, and extra cabling -…

I agree with everything you said, but I believe the pump shroud is for faster engine warmup, not saving a fraction of a horsepower. Cold engines run rich, producing more hydrocarbon emissions, and the cold startup phase emissions are heavily penalized. There’s also additional wear on the engine due to cold oil and looser tolerances, which affects nearly every aspect of the engine.

It might be, yeah. But why wouldn't the thermostat solve that problem, since it won't let water through the rad? And wouldn't the faster warmup come at the expense of the heater taking longer?

If you really wanted to not run the coolant pump until you'd got the engine a little warmer I would have thought a magnetic clutch like an aircon compressor would have been better. Although these days, maybe even an electric pump could be more efficient.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My W123 230TE definitely had a tach, and also the shift point dots, and a 3-speed thirstymatic. I wish I still had it.

Yeah my 300TD did as well. As you well know the wagons were super fancy though they had all the bells and whistles (except the sunroof, which was manual--and awesome!).

But that latch mechanism, the solid click when you pulled the handle down and twisted it to unlatch!

So many of the mechanical controls of that car felt like working the action of a very, *very* expensive shotgun.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#498
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little she knows that if she uses the “self driving” from Tesla she may get into a death trap.

It’s way safer than most human drivers. I use it all of the time.

A FSD vehicle is not supposed to require you to keep the hands on the wheel and be prepared at anytime to take over control. I would say Waymo has a FSD mode while Tesla has a death trap mode with its customers as the beta test drivers.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#499
post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self-leveling hydraulic suspension in the W123 wagon was also a complication. The climate control system was failure prone, but failed in a sensible way--when the control unit failed it would no longer maintain a set temperature, but would still work as an open-loop system. The cruise control "computer" (completely analog device) was also prone to failure. But the thing is all that stuff was implemented simply, r…

Now it's reminding me more of the E36 I used to drive. Dual-zone auto temperature control failed? Heat still works, at least -- the "all the way on" position for the driver's side temperature knob was not a potentiometer, but was instead simple switch that opened the valves. Not perfect, but not complete failure: Good enough to get from A to B without the window fogging or freezing in the cold. But those manifold, so…

Nice! DIN 3017A are the ones! They had a little Benz star stamped on each one. The E36 is another one of those legendary chassis where they basically just got it right. I've looked at a few of them over the years but they were all so beat up that I couldn't justify buying. Some day when it finally rots out or the transmission shreds itself or something I will throw the OM606 from my W210 into a better car.. a mechanically governed OM606 swapped E36 would be super cool if it could be made to fit. I'm sure somebody has done it before. OTOH I also have a super beat up NV4500 collecting dust so I could build something cool with that... for now better to just run it.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah my 300TD did as well. As you well know the wagons were super fancy though they had all the bells and whistles (except the sunroof, which was manual--and awesome!).

But that latch mechanism, the solid click when you pulled the handle down and twisted it to unlatch! So many of the mechanical controls of that car felt like working the action of a very, *very* expensive shotgun.

Fantastic machine. I drove mine without a power steering pump for about 6mo. The giant steering wheel helped a lot. Having individual V-belts to all the accessories instead of one serpentine belt saved me a tow and a repair bill more than once. My 1995 80 series Land Cruiser is built very similarly--it's a system that's designed to take battle damage and keep on going, but in sublime comfort the entire time.

EDIT: I just remembered the shock absorbers in the front bumper. IIRC in the owner's manual it said you can crash into things at up to 5mph with no fear of damage. I never tested that.. A Subaru did run into one of my fenders, though. The fender was bent in at the wheel arch maybe 3". The poor Subie suffered a punctured A/C condenser, radiator, and the plastic bumper shattered. I yanked the dent out of the fender (more or less) with a prybar and drove away. The Subaru went home on a rollback.

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