Live data from Hacker News

Online age verification is the hill to die on

x.com

491–500 of 750 posts

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#491
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to hear your theory on how it saves us from the brain rot!

I’m betting that bot activity plummets once accounts are tied to real identities. That’s a discourse benefit. I’m also betting that discussion will become a lot more rational once people have to put their names on what they are saying. Death threats also become more easily prosecutable.

Also becomes a lot easier to target people for speech you don't like, especially if you're the government.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is that this whole push for age verification is nothing to do with actually stopping kids seeing the content. If it was then this kind of solution would be being legislated for. It’s just about making everyone identifiable.

Your lack of understanding why age verification does not constitute it being a conspiracy for another reason. There is a antiregulatory crowd that will invent any possible excuse to suggest tech companies shouldn't be accountable and we should just leave the Internet be. Those people make a lot of money exploiting everyone, as it happens, and they also pay for journalists to tell you that it's all about violating pri…

Any "verification" means unacceptable privacy violations.

The best route is better parental controls, that are not enabled by default. Locking down the OS like ransomware until the user submits to age verification is the wrong approach, and what Apple did in the UK needs to be highly illegal.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An outstanding idea. Those lobbying for age verification hate it though, because they want to be the arbiters of age, and all that juicy PII that they can analyze and resell.

What PII? They get a boolean "old enough"

Age verification companies literally require your personal information to function. They don't want you to be able to send them a simple boolean over Tor in exchange for whatever trackable token you need to access something.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#494
An anecdote: I am 40 years old and I have an Onlyfans account. I enjoy some hippie chick that makes pottery and takes pics of herself without clothes on.

I went on vacation to Tennessee and tried to log in and it said I needed to verify with their identity verification provider. Of course I refused.

Now I am home in a different state and still cannot log in. I contacted support and because I was detected in TN once irrespective of my name and address and credit card info in their system they refuse to let me back in.

Support said they canceled my subscriptions for me because you can't even access that part of your account.

It's ridiculous this is where things have landed. And it's not even stopping porn in the slightest it's just making it harder for honest people to pay for what they like. And so the government can track us more easily. Wish I could do something other than vote with my wallet.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use eID when explicitly interacting with a govt entity or bank or otherwise similar institution because you have to and want to prove who you are. Yes, I do want to prove who I am when I file taxes, vote or want to start a business... You don't use it when just browsing randomly on the internet. You don't use it to buy games on steam. Your computer isn't forced to store it because a law arbitrarily says so.

Why not, seems to be made exactly for this purpose if you look at the "‘Age over 18’: true" flag. What's bad about that solution? > The technical solution for an EU age verification app is privacy-preserving, open source and user-friendly. > First, the user downloads the app onto their phone and sets it up by certifying their age. This can be done with a biometric passport/ID card, a national eID (e.g. national ID Ca…

The EU app still requires that you let them violate your privacy in exchange for a batch of about 30 easily trackable tokens that expire after 3 months. It also bans rooting/jailbreaking, bans third party operating systems like GrapheneOS, and requires that you install Google Play Services/IOS equivalent for "anti-tampering".

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#496
post #41

Age verification can be achieved without destroying anonymity and privacy online using anonymous credential systems, but it has to be designed that way from the ground up, and no one pushing age verification is interested in preserving privacy.

> Age verification can be achieved without destroying anonymity and privacy online

Yeah its extremely simple. You provide a simple message asking the user if they are an adult, and they either click "yes" or "no". That method requires exchanging zero personal information with anyone, other than a simple boolean value to the site/service you are using.

Any other system requires letting a third party violate your privacy.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well why haven't all the big tech companies done it then? They have only themselves to blame. They had years to fix the problem of inappropriate content being delivered to kids and their response was sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "blah blah blah parenting blah blah blah" And it really should be the opposite. Assume content is not kid-safe by default, and allow sites to declare if they have some othe…

The reason is that this whole push for age verification is nothing to do with actually stopping kids seeing the content. If it was then this kind of solution would be being legislated for. It’s just about making everyone identifiable.

If it is about making everyone identifiable how come California's version doesn't require providing any identifying information when setting it up on a child's device?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's proposed design still has a ton of issues.

Elaborate please

The anti-tampering measures require banning rooting/jailbreaking, banning the installation of non-Google/Apple approved operating systems (ex: GrapheneOS), and require that you install Google Play Services/IOS equivalent.

The app also requires that you first send your personal information to a closed source backend, in exchange for easily trackable tokens used as "proof".

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d think that one could simply block sites that don’t have the age header set on child computers. This may block kids from hobbyist sites that don’t bother to set their headers as kid-friendly, but commercial sites would surely set their headers properly. Over time sending proper rating headers would become more normalized if they were in common use. This still isn’t perfect, as it creates an incentive for legisla…

An age header is not the answer. Why should a site have to decide what content is appropriate for a 18 year old and what content is not? Who is qualified to make that decision for every 17 year old in the world? Do they know my 17 year old? Do they know the rules in our home? What if I'm OK with my kid seeing sex-education stuff, but some lawyer at Wikipedia just decides to tag sex ed articles as 18+? Now I have a sh…

Then this leads to a very unwelcome view that most of the problems we face are actually rooted in parents' unwillingness to invest too much time in education :)

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#500
post #138

>age verification requires identity verification. Identity verification requires digital IDs. Digital IDs require everyone — not just children — to prove who they are before they can speak... Not if it's done in a half arsed way. I'm in the UK and so far my age verification has involved doing a selfie with the webcam for Reddit. That's it. No one needing my name, ID number etc. (Apart from banks of course). Really th…

Does it not sound insane to you that you need to expose your biometrics to a corporation just to make anonymous posts on a forum?

It really is insane that some people don't realize how biometrics are just as bad as every other option.
Post reply on HN