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Ghostty is leaving GitHub

mitchellh.com

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Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#491

Post by hansvm »

_doctor_love wrote: post #267
bsimpson wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like MS went out of its way to make a point that GitHub and NPM would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money. It was positioned as a benevolent acquisition for the good of the development community. As so often happens, that didn't last long. Nest was originally independent. Didn't take long for it to merge with the Google Home brand. I'm sure there are countless…

> would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money It is honestly so shameful that we keep falling for this gambit. It is nothing more than a rank "but this time is different!" Economics is what drives things. It is what drives things in households and it is what drives things in companies. Unless times are truly great or the company is truly forward-looking, promises of fre…

> It is honestly so shameful that we keep falling for this gambit.

I'm not sure who "we" is in this story, but the _most_ optimistic of my peers pointed to typical MS projects of that scale having a little proper investment in interesting features and also taking at least a couple years to fail. HN sentiment wasn't positive either. The 99th percentile in favor of MS were fine with it, but the 90th percentile recognized the M&A for what it was, especially as specific features started showing their colours.

Lest this come across as a drive-by insult, I'm actually very curious who "we" is. Humanity is a very, very broad spectrum, and my intuition often doesn't appropriately capture the divers backgrounds of real people, despite spending large amounts of time with (usually from working alongside) deck-hands, captains, sanitation workers, bankers, pilots, jackhammer operators, semi drivers, farmers, programmers, mathematicians, and a host of other people. The gap I'm seeing is likely in my understanding (rather than, e.g., the post being mal-formed), so I'd like to correct that.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#493

Post by slowmovintarget »

margalabargala wrote: post #454
idan wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do work at GitHub. I shared the above as a nuanced "yes and" to the pain that Mitchell is feeling. In the same way that Mastodon didn't replace Twitter even when Twitter went to shit, I don't believe in the various GitHub alternatives becoming a broadly-used thing. Maybe we'll end up with more GitHub-alikes like Codeberg, mabye we'll end up with some communities adopting novel forges like Tangled and Forgejo. But i…

I'm glad you are optimistic. GitHub will need employees with that attitude if they're going to pull out of their current trajectory. To be clear- from a user perspective, "improving GitHub" means "restoring reliability to what it was 6 years ago". There's no killer feature that makes people stop leaving, if my PRs don't lead every third day and actions never work.

Security: No leaking PII, no compromised build pipelines.

Uptime: 4 9s minimum for paying customers for the core service (not necessarily the social features, but pull requests have to work).

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#494

Post by eddythompson80 »

jonpalmisc wrote: post #341
sudb wrote: post #25

I'm very interested in where ghostty ends up - I wonder if they'll follow Zig to Codeberg? It does seem like it might, in general, be a very opportune time for GitLab (or another host) to publicly step up! There seems to be a lot of chatter on X recently about wanting an entirely new GitHub usurper that doesn't look like GitHub at all, but in the short- to medium-term I expect this not to gain a huge amount of tracti…

Eh, I kinda hope not. Codeberg's latency even for just browsing is pretty bad (in my experience) and also is only sporting a single 9 of uptime [1]. I wish Codeberg the best, but I thought it was a questionable choice for Zig and feel similarly for Ghostty—doesn't seem like a strict improvement. [1] https://status.codeberg.eu/status/codeberg

Well, that page took 13 seconds to load for me :/

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#496

Post by motoxpro »

bagxrvxpepzn wrote: post #423
motoxpro wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not good intentioned, you're a jerk, and it's 100% fine (and healthy) to care about things in life.

> This is not good intentioned On what are you basing that? > it's 100% fine (and healthy) to care about things in life. Yes it is and I didn't claim it wasn't, so this is a strawman. There's nothing personally indicting about having low testosterone. It's relatively common and it's potentially a serious medical condition. There is no reason to take offense from this.

Becuase you're associating their reaction to "a serious medical condition" because it is "not normal."

I wanted to add a counter to that and say they are very normal and support them rather than suggest they go to the doctor.

My assessment of your intentions was wrong, as I can't know that, but I stand by the other two statements.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#497

Post by pdimitar »

_doctor_love wrote: post #267
bsimpson wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like MS went out of its way to make a point that GitHub and NPM would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money. It was positioned as a benevolent acquisition for the good of the development community. As so often happens, that didn't last long. Nest was originally independent. Didn't take long for it to merge with the Google Home brand. I'm sure there are countless…

> would be independent orgs that no longer had to worry about making keep-the-lights-on money It is honestly so shameful that we keep falling for this gambit. It is nothing more than a rank "but this time is different!" Economics is what drives things. It is what drives things in households and it is what drives things in companies. Unless times are truly great or the company is truly forward-looking, promises of fre…

Who is "we", exactly?

Neither me nor dozens of my acquaintances fell for it. 100% of us said "GitHub is toast, it's just a matter of time". And we and many others were right.

Your "we" is misplaced.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#498

Post by aforwardslash »

Reason077 wrote: post #45
celestialcheese wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure migration is the most plausible explanation I've heard. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45517173

GitHub claims that AI development tools have caused a massive surge in demand in recent months. They need to scale by 30X to keep up with demand. According to GitHub, Azure migration is the attempt at a fix/upscaling, not the underlying cause of the issues. Addressing GitHub’s recent availability issues: https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/addressing-gi... An update on GitHub availability: https://github.b…

Funny how windows updates are never postponed for lack of "scaling". I know, I know, completely different stuff here - but arent test vms and ci vms being updated constantly?

Im old enough to remember the hotmail migration to win2k (then 2k3) and the postmortem. I was also old enough to look at the rotor source code. Yah, that one, running managed code in freebsd.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#499

Post by NetMageSCW »

altairprime wrote: post #470
idan wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do work at GitHub. I shared the above as a nuanced "yes and" to the pain that Mitchell is feeling. In the same way that Mastodon didn't replace Twitter even when Twitter went to shit, I don't believe in the various GitHub alternatives becoming a broadly-used thing. Maybe we'll end up with more GitHub-alikes like Codeberg, mabye we'll end up with some communities adopting novel forges like Tangled and Forgejo. But i…

I think a better comparison would be between GitHub and 1Password. Both started out as really excellent things for individuals and both became really awful things for individuals in their pursuit of enterprises.

What do you find awful about 1Password today?

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#500

Post by pxc »

artyom wrote: post #277
nimbius wrote: post #163

>It’s not a fun place for me to be anymore. I want to be there but it doesn't want me to be there. I want to get work done and it doesn't want me to get work done. I want to ship software and it doesn't want me to ship software. Has anyone else shared this sentiment? If so Redmond needs to lean in hard. this is an absolute killing blow for Microsoft if it gains real traction. You made developers your cornerstone eigh…

> Youve lost the OS, and the server realm. Lose the developers, and youre on your way to becoming the Xerox of the 21st century. This is a very HN take. MS is terrible or at best "second tier" on everything they do including gaming, they also lost the mobile race, they're very likely going to lose the AI race, but they'll still hold hostage of the vast swathes of average white collar workers with Office, people that…

> This is a very HN take.

It's something that Microsoft leadership themselves certainly seems to have believed at times. From "developers, developers, developers, developers!" to courting Linux-targeting webdevs with WSL to VSCode, they've done lots to court developers, sometimes explicitly professing it as a central part of their strategy.

I can't disagree with any of the rest, though. Microsoft's (anti-)competitive strategy has never been about excellence so much as positioning worse stuff to win in virtue of network effects and integrations.

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