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Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

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Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#491

Post by rootusrootus »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #479

The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done. I’m g…

> administrative subpoenas frequently include non disclosure orders

Which Google definitely knows are not enforceable.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#492

Post by airstrike »

crazygringo wrote: post #441
inkysigma wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it did contain a request to not notify according to that same letter. I suppose that brings up several questions. 1. Does that mean the same thing in the ToS? 2. How valid are these requests?

I'm very curious about this. Google knows users care about their privacy, and it made the promise in its terms precisely for that reason. People pay attention to this stuff, as the popularity of this story shows. Therefore, it's generally not going to be in Google's interest to break its own terms. So what's going on? Did a Google employee simply mess up? Is the reporting not accurate or missing key details, e.g. Goo…

> Google knows users care about their privacy, and it made the promise in its terms precisely for that reason. People pay attention to this stuff, as the popularity of this story shows.

Does it know? And do users really care? Popularity on HN isn't popularity everywhere.

I'd wager most people don't care enough to move away from Gmail.

But even if they did, unfortunately this isn't the only variable a business is solving for. Corporations will generally just pick between the least unprofitable of two evils, not the lesser of.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#493

Post by oceanplexian »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #479

The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done. I’m g…

Technically incorrect, Supreme Court precedent has held that aliens are entitled to lesser First Amendment protections while seeking to enter the United States. You could be on US Soil (i.e. entering customs at an airport) and those protections don't apply.

The person in question said he was in Geneva when he received the email from Google. Therefore is a non-US citizen residing outside the country entitled to 1A protections for something they said or did while in the US? I'm not expressing an opinion but I wouldn't take that statement as legal advice.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#494

Post by thayne »

crazygringo wrote: post #441
inkysigma wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it did contain a request to not notify according to that same letter. I suppose that brings up several questions. 1. Does that mean the same thing in the ToS? 2. How valid are these requests?

I'm very curious about this. Google knows users care about their privacy, and it made the promise in its terms precisely for that reason. People pay attention to this stuff, as the popularity of this story shows. Therefore, it's generally not going to be in Google's interest to break its own terms. So what's going on? Did a Google employee simply mess up? Is the reporting not accurate or missing key details, e.g. Goo…

It's quite possible that google is more afraid of what will happen if they resist ICE than they are of bad publicity like this.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#495

Post by busterarm »

hluska wrote: post #438
busterarm wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the ACLU offering to pay your legal bills or participate in your defense along with that legal advice that they're offering?

How is that relevant?

It's relevant if you follow their legal advice and the government decides to pursue a case against you.

Even if you're in the right, defending yourself in a legal proceeding is expensive. You need a checkbook that can back up your confidence in what they're telling you. And sure, Google has that money, but they're also fighting off half of congress trying to break up their business.

It's in their best interests to do whatever the DoJ asks of them.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#496

Post by BLKNSLVR »

keithnz wrote: post #443

weird everyone's focusing on privacy and google.... Not the actual insanity of a government targeting people who are legally allowed to be in the US. You can try to find a way to keep things private, and many of the people on HN likely have the capability to do so. But hiding from your government because they are weaponizing your information against you seems to be the wrong approach. I just don't understand the Amer…

I find it similarly weird that a post threatening genocide remains up, whilst a post depicting Trump as Dr. Jesus was so offensive it had to be taken down and 'explained away' as something other than what it was.

Only on the darkest timeline is a picture more offensive than the threat of genocide.

Gives a good insight into the psyche of power in the US (and probably the psyche of power in general).

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#498

Post by Waterluvian »

shoman3003 wrote: post #497

Just fyi, you deserve what happened to you. I am Palestinian & what you are doing is turning our situation into a social trophy. Maybe you guys should read about what you are supporting first.

In the US, “not my president” is a mindset many seem to believe in. That not agreeing with the actions is somehow enough to wash one’s hands of responsibility for their country’s actions.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#499

Post by Jimmc414 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #493
Jimmc414 wrote: post #479

The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done. I’m g…

Technically incorrect, Supreme Court precedent has held that aliens are entitled to lesser First Amendment protections while seeking to enter the United States. You could be on US Soil (i.e. entering customs at an airport) and those protections don't apply. The person in question said he was in Geneva when he received the email from Google. Therefore is a non-US citizen residing outside the country entitled to 1A pro…

Yes, someone in customs at an airport can be treated as functionally “at the border” with reduced protections.

But you are conflating seeking entry with being present inside the country. That’s the legal line, and the Supreme Court has stated it clearly. “once an alien enters the country, the legal circumstance changes, for the Due Process Clause applies to all ‘persons’ within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent.” [0]

As for the First Amendment specifically the Supreme court has reversed the deportation order of an Australian labor activist due to alleged Communist Party affiliation, concluding that “freedom of speech and of the press is accorded aliens residing in this country” [1]

The Geneva detail doesn’t apply. He was on US soil as a lawful visa holder when he attended the protest. It’s a question of where he was when the government action targeted his protected expression not where he was when Google emailed him.

His departure doesn’t retroactively strip the constitutional protections that applied when the conduct occurred.

[0] https://law.onecle.com/ussc/533/533us693.html

[1] Bridges v. Wixon https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/aliens/

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#500

Post by coryrc »

samtheprogram wrote: post #299
anonymousiam wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've migrated everything from Google except for Google Voice. I have yet to find an alternative that can match the feature set and ease of use, regardless of the cost.

What part of the feature set in particular has been lacking in competitors? EDIT: asking because I've been working on an alternative of sorts. I used GV a lot before I figured I could go without it/Google.

I have one page with my full history of text messages, full transcription of all voice messages, contacts information connected with every number, and I can search everything. I can configure which of my phones ring.

And, possibly most importantly to me right now, my current phone has only a data connection and I make and receive calls using the Voice app. I think SIP eats too much battery and data and doesn't work well for wifilte switching, but it's been a long time since I used it much.

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