Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

bmi.usercontent.opencode.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 674 posts

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#491

Post by faust201 »

miki123211 wrote: post #351
haagch wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German citizen here. So why is an implementation going forward when you already know it will not serve all citizens? Why are we not refusing to implement this until we know we can make it work on all devices? Personally I recently switched from an AOSP based android without Google Play to Ubuntu Touch. In the future with better hardware support I will probably switch to postmarketOS.

Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? If you were averse to carrots (without any health restrictions on eating them), would every government institution in Germany be required to serve you carrot-free food? If not, why should they be forced to accommodate every smartphone brand in existence, even if there's only 3 people in Germany using it? THe list has to end somewhere.

They do.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#492

Post by dudefeliciano »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #418
webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

What happens if someone is banned from both companies (even for a very legitimate reason such as hosting illegal content -- they still need to access government services)?

What about people hosting content that is illegal in the US but not Germany (not sure what that may be now, but with the direction the US is taking maybe in a couple years even the fat Vance meme could become some kind of illegal subversive content). Anger the big daddy and your identitiy is gone.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#493

Post by nothinkjustai »

p2detar wrote: post #380
elric wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's just arbitrarily exclude ~1million people because they're not running the government's preferred American spyware.

This is an unfair and a straw man argument, is it not? Are you also unhappy that in a democracy the 51% choose how the other 49% are going to be governed? Why device attestation is required is quite well explained by this github comment [0]. I am in the industry and I agree fully with it, because it is a fact a problem for most smart phone users in terms of security. 0 - https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/…

> Are you also unhappy that in a democracy the 51% choose how the other 49% are going to be governed

Yes of course. That is one of it’s fundamental issues.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#494

Post by dudefeliciano »

anileated wrote: post #175
archerx wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I don’t have a smartphone?

No one is required to use EUDI: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/spaces/EU... Companies and providers (like banks) have to support it, but use is voluntary. Check out the spec and legal framework, it actually makes sense and is open to different implementations, though you might need to certify it.

My prediction is that eventually services for people NOT using the digital ID will be so degraded to be almost useless or seriously disadvantageous.

Kinda like the discrimination DB does for people using paper tickets vs those using the DB Navigator app.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#495

Post by KellyCriterion »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #273
verbalize2224 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should think about how easy it is to permanently lose access to your Google account for very trivial issues and Google doesn't offer any form of recovery. That in addition to the current geopolitical situation should be reason enough not to rely on that for any justification. And personally as a software developer myself i know that nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution. No one will prioritize or gi…

Can't you just make a new google account then?

....with a new phone number....

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#496

Post by amaccuish »

webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

Why the need for a Cloud HSM?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#497

Post by b112 »

LexGray wrote: post #455
b112 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the example your provide is reasonable fair, the comparison is not. For it to be fair comparison, the carrots would have to be grown by a foreign company, known for using unsafe growing practices, causing contamination. Eg, poison carrots. This same company would have to be under the control of a very hostile, very actively aggressive and threatening nation. Such as one currently threatening to annex allies, am…

I think it falls under the article yesterday about male German citizens having restrictions on their travel. Electronic ID is a step toward “papers please”. Germany at least seems to feel international war is only a few steps away and from how militant the Chinese and Russians have been treating their “territory” I am not sure it is a bad call. America has likewise turned bad preferring violence over dialogue and lov…

The first thing to go in every major war, will be the reliably of electronic anything.

What's wrong with ID cards and cash?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#498

Post by fsflover »

p2detar wrote: post #479
fsflover wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in all seriousness what examples could you give me here in terms of device hardware attestation? My Librem 5 runs an FSF-endorsed OS and has a smartcard. > True for Google, not true for Apple. Device attestation on iOS does not require you to have an iCloud account or sign into some Apple services. This is extremely misleading. Even if true, you must have an account in order to install any app on an iPhone.

> My Librem 5 runs an FSF-endorsed OS and has a smartcard. Ok, so how does that help with device attestation? If I am an app developer how does it tell me that your OS has not been tempered with or actually that my app has not been tempered with? Are there any cryptographic keys stored in a secure place on the device that the Librem vendor can verify? > This is extremely misleading. But it's not. It's an architectura…

> If I am an app developer how does it tell me that your OS has not been tempered with or actually that my app has not been tempered with?

This is not your business to verify and control what can run on my phone. I can do it with my smart card, which securely stores cryptographic keys.

> And as a user, you do not have your iCloud or iTunes account used for device attestation.

It does not matter. An account is necessary to make the phone usable at all. The attestation is useless on a phone that can't install apps.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#499

Post by integralid »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #401
Avamander wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep lashing out at people in this thread. Demanding full control over something like an ID will fundamentally not happen. The same way you won't have full control over the way passports or paper bills are made. Take for example the expectation that some poor fool's ID can't be cloned and reused by malicious actors - full control directly contradicts that. It will not and must not be possible.

We don't need 'full control' over an ID. We need the status quo, where we have mostly have control over our devices, and where paper IDs are still the foundation of society. Things are fine the way they are. There are problems, sure, but no problems that are made better by an all-encompassing surveillance state. If I am lashing out, it is because this is perhaps the most dangerous thing I've ever seen proposed, and i…

>To be honest, if I were German, I would probably just kill myself the day I was legally mandated by my government to register my identity with Google. That might sound hyperbolic, but I'm really not kidding.

This is honestly not a good argument - it makes you sound desperate and puts in doubt your mental stability. I don't think you actually have mental problems, I just mean this this kind of argument comes off bad.

Also nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. You don't have to own a digital ID. It just makes things easier, because you can sign things over the internet, or present your phone instead of your plastic ID. Both things already have alternatives (qualified signatures and regular physical ID), so no immediate harm is being done.

Don't get me wrong, I am personally anti bigtech, I try to degoogle as much as possible, and I find the thought of my government coercing me to use google/apple duopoly repulsive. I dislike that, but using phones (instead of for example dedicated hardware) IS pragmatic, and you are not forced to do anything.

Sent from my pixel phone.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#500

Post by fsflover »

dabber21 wrote: post #422
haagch wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German citizen here. So why is an implementation going forward when you already know it will not serve all citizens? Why are we not refusing to implement this until we know we can make it work on all devices? Personally I recently switched from an AOSP based android without Google Play to Ubuntu Touch. In the future with better hardware support I will probably switch to postmarketOS.

also German here, we have to get rid of the 100% perfection at launch expectation its crippling this country

Refusing to send all your private data to the US to benefit their megacorps, using the tax payers' money, is not "perfection". It is the only reasonable and legal choice.
Post reply on HN