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Malus – Clean Room as a Service

malus.sh

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Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#491

Post by def13 »

gault8121 wrote: post #417
madeofpalk wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being real doesn't make it not satire.

Yes but all of the commenters think this is a fake site created ironically. It isn't. It is a company doing the evil thing it is mocking.

Part of the point here is that the systems are fundamentally broken, more broken than they were before when we already thought they were broken. Some people look at that and think "I suppose we should keep propping this system up as much as possible; the less propping the more immediate harm is caused to people/infrastructure/society".

The people behind this site/talk clearly don't buy into that. The way they see it, a reckoning must come. We might as well get it over with as soon as possible. Rip off the band-aid so to speak. So maybe we should shake the system and show that its falling apart.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#492

Post by bambax »

jerf wrote: post #75

An interesting aspect of this, especially their blog post ( https://malus.sh/blog.html ), is that it acknowledges a strain in our legal system I've been observing for decades, but don't think the legal system or people in general have dealt with, which is that generally costs matter . A favorite example of mine is speed limits. There is a difference between "putting up a sign that says 55 mph and walking away", "putt…

My mom, who's a lawyer, always told us that laws don't matter, what matter is how hard they're enforced, and we can simply ignore laws that exist but we know for a fact they're not enforced (or not enforceable).

I once had small talk with Lawrence Lessig after a conference of his, and when I told him that he was visibly shocked, as if I had told him I was raised to be a criminal.

Now I'm not sure what to think anymore.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#493

Post by bambax »

array_key_first wrote: post #435
hamdingers wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This unwritten distinction exists only to allow targeted enforcement in service of harassment and oppression. There is no upside (even if getting away with speeding feels good). We should strive to enforce all laws 100% of the time as that is the only fair option. If a law being enforced 100% of the time causes problems then rethink the law (i.e. raise the speed limit, or design the road slower).

Laws can't be enforced 100% of the time because many laws require intent , which is unknowable. You have to make an educated guess behind it. Even if someone tells you their intent, straight up, you still don't know their intent. You just know what they want you to think their intent is, which may or may not be the same thing. It's legitimately unknowable. Ideally, for a lot of things we want to punish people who kno…

Very true but not in all cases. In case of speed limit intent does not matter; "I didn't know I was speeding" is no excuse. Same with DUI.

In fact DUI should be a mitigating circumstance, because when you're drunk your ability to make decisions is impaired -- but the opposite happens, DUI is an aggravating circumstance.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#494

Post by worthless-trash »

vkou wrote: post #282
lupire wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judges and police officers have their own massive "worst excesses".

They do, but letting mob rule decide criminal sanction is beyond fucked. See: Any discussion thread of literally any criminal being sentenced, receiving parole, or better yet, committing any crime after being released for serving a different one.

Its almost like they are sick of people commiting crimes.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#497

Post by lucketone »

encom wrote: post #490
no-name-here wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? 1) If grandparent commenter got a moving violation, shouldn't they just face the corresponding - why posit a made-up penalty for the violation? 2) And if people know there is perfect enforcement, wouldn't they be expected to adjust their behavior going forward, such as driving enough below the limit that they won't accidentally exceed it?

>driving enough below the limit that they won't accidentally exceed it That is precisely why traffic would effectively grind to a halt. Because going even 0,0001 over the limit is so easy, you would have to turtle through traffic to get anywhere while making certain you never go above the limit. 50km zone is now 30km, and you didn't decelerate quickly enough and were going 32km at the threshold. 60km zone, but you ac…

Everybody going 30km/h does not constitute “halt”

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#498

Post by tripzilch »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #439
exceptione wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am only 50% certain that your idea is expanding on the satire, if not: project owners can provide dual licensing. I'm sorry if you are serious and didn't understand you.

After bogo-sort, it's the most badness-maximising "solution" I've ever come across. Why bother asking for the creator's consent to copy and run the original bytes, when you could instead ask for their consent to have a robot that no one understands and could potentially do anything read a few paragraphs of text describing what those bytes do, imagine how it might work, and try to build something resembling that from…

What about my latest algorithm, VibeSort

    // VibeSort
    let arr = [51,46,72,32,14,27,88,32];

    arr.sort((a,b)=>{
      let response = LLM.query(`Which number is larger, number A:${a} or number B:${b}. Answer using "A" or "B" only, if they are equal, say "C".`);
      if(response.includes('C')) return 0;
      if(response.includes('B')) return -1;
      if(response.includes('A')) return 1;
      return 0;
    });

    console.table(arr);

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#499

Post by dsr_ »

anovikov wrote: post #489
RobotToaster wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One issue is that imperfect enforcement is often how the momentum to change the law is created. If the police had been able to swoop in and arrest the "perpetrators" every time two men kissed, homosexuality would have never been legalized; If they had been able to arrest anyone who made alcohol, prohibition wouldn't have ended; if they had been able to arrest anyone with a cannabis seedling, we wouldn't have cannabis…

Quite the opposite. A lot of obviously innocent people ending up in jail will have created a massive backlash a lot earlier, helping fixing idiotic legislation.

Only if the legal system allows itself to be changed.

The present system in many countries is that criminal and civil codes are too large to be comprehended by a single person, too large to be changed rationally, and the processes too subject to corruption to be changed all at once.

Re: Malus – Clean Room as a Service

#500

Post by Otterly99 »

necovek wrote: post #438
cuu508 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are all making a continual and ongoing grave error > Blindly translating those centuries of laws into rigid, free enforcement is a terrible idea for everyone. I understand your point that changing the enforcement changes how the law is "felt" even though on the paper the law has not changed. And I think it makes sense to review and potentially revise the laws when enforcement methods change. But in the specific…

Any law, including a speed limit, has unforeseen consequences. In my part of the world, there is a 4km stretch of the road with good visibility, low pedestrian traffic, and which takes you either 10 minutes to go through if you follow the limits, or 3 minutes if you drive at +5km/h. Other than lost time (which compounds, but also increases traffic congestion, so those 10 mins might turn into 20-25), the fuel use and…

Not sure how that makes sense, it takes a third of the time, but you're only going 5 km/h faster?
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