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Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

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Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#491

For the last 2 years I can't even get an interview despited having 14 years of experience and being up to date with development trends, libraries, languages, AI tooling, etc. I don't think the market is flooded with new devs as many state, I think we are in a deep silent crisis

Silent?

You guys keep trying to put a pillow over our face.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#492
post #15

In my experience, tech employment is incredibly bimodal right now. Top candidates are commanding higher salaries than ever, but an "average" developer is going to have an extremely hard time finding a position. Contrary to what many say, I don't think it's simple as seniors are getting hired and juniors aren't. Juniors are still getting hired because they're still way cheaper and they're just as capable as using AI a…

I generally tend to interview every year to see what's out there in the world (sometimes I find something worth switching for, other times not). I'm not even looking very hard but have had 4 interviews in the last month. Personally I think it's a bit more nuanced than senior vs junior (though it is very hard for juniors right now). What I've seen a lot of hunger for is people with a track record of getting their hand…

When I was in corporate I'd talk about cover your ass mode and get'er done mode. And while realistically I know both are necessary, I was always annoyed at the need to have a cya mode. I get a bit of schadenfreude from the thougt of the market being harder for the people who don't seem to have a get'er done mode, and a bit of his at the thought it might be because there's less concern over whom to bother if something needs to be fixed later.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#493

Not dismissing that it’s a tough market for some but folks also need to learn how to read a chart. It shows a slight decline following a massive expansion. The primary thing going on in the market right now is a lot of companies simply over-hired during the post Covid boom and they’re correcting for that.

I don't believe its over hiring I believe its offshoring. Blaming Covid after so many years doesn't make sense.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#494
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm very much a "builder" type dev that has more fun going from 0-v1 than maintaining and expanding scalable, large systems. Maintaining and expanding is more challenging, which is why I’ve grown to prefer that. Greenfield and then leaving is too easy, you don’t learn the actually valuable lessons. As experience shows that projects won’t stay in the nice greenfield world, building them can feel like doing illusory…

> Greenfield and then leaving is too easy, you don’t learn the actually valuable lessons. You learn a ton of valuable lessons going from 0 to v1. And a ton of value is created. I guess I'm unclear how you're defining "actually valuable" here.

Architecting not knowing how to maintain it.

Edit: a legacy vibe coder

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even looking very hard but have had 4 interviews in the last month. How many offers did you receive? Companies have also adopted your strategy: interviewing candidates "to see what's out there" - there's a job I interviewed for that's still open after 10 months.

What a time to be alive: Companies post roles that don't exist to interview candidates who don't plan to switch.

and waste everyone time

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#496

I know people will say AI, but I don't think it's that. The whole "everyone should learn to code" bullshit of the last 15 years or so has created a lot of developers that frankly aren't very good, and then you mix in the massive overhiring of the pandemic, and what you're seeing is a hard correction. CEOs love to use "productivity improvements from AI" as a smokescreen and investor catnip but the research shows it's…

Blaming the employees is BS. A pretty large % of the people losing their jobs are also high performing excellent people. I feel like anyone who worked at one of these companies doing lay offs knows this.

Also wtf were we supposed to do? I graduated during the great recession. No one was hiring. Everyone from the president on down told us to learn to code. So we did.

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what do you attribute your success in getting interviews to? What are you doing right, or better than other people?

I honestly have no idea. The last place I worked is pretty well-known. Not big tech, but a recognizable name to most people. I send out a lot of applications: those 25 interviews are the result of 150 applications in the last two months or so. And then I have my linkedin set to be discoverable and looking for a job. Basically just fiddle with the options under Visibility and Data Privacy in the linkedin settings and…

So are the majority of these applications the result of recruiters finding you via LinkedIn, or have you been applying direct as well? What application path have most of the interviews come from?

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#498
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm very much a "builder" type dev that has more fun going from 0-v1 than maintaining and expanding scalable, large systems. Maintaining and expanding is more challenging, which is why I’ve grown to prefer that. Greenfield and then leaving is too easy, you don’t learn the actually valuable lessons. As experience shows that projects won’t stay in the nice greenfield world, building them can feel like doing illusory…

This is unironically my favorite kind of HN comment: to say something incredibly rude and/or condescending but wrap it in the right kind of thoughtful language to qualify as HN nice The original punchline ("you don’t learn the actually valuable lessons.") was just a bit too sharp, so you even edited in a psuedo-clarification which actually just repeats that punchline but in a softer way, masterful!

The soft sensitive people today have no idea how hard a condesending asshole has to work to live up to his own standards. When they do, one should still find something to troll them with. If you cant find it you complaint about the excessive border radius creating a child friendly fisherprice kind of environment. If that is the worse you can find they should agree and confess they have a fear of sharp edges.

How times have changed

Re: Tech employment now significantly worse than the 2008 or 2020 recessions

#499
post #189
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve observed radically different workflows amongst senior candidates vs junior candidates when using an ai. A senior candidate will often build an extremely detailed plan for the agent - similar to how you would do a design for/with a junior engineer. Then let the agent go full throttle to implement the plan and review the result. Juniors seem to split into the category of trust everything the ai says, or review eve…

I don't claim to have any special skill at AI, but as a 'senior' dev, my strategy is exactly the opposite. I try to be as lazy, dumb and concise as I can bring myself to be with my initial prompt, and then just add more detail for the bits that the AI didn't guess correctly the first time around. Quite often the AI guesses accurately and you save the time you'd have spent crafting the perfect prompt. Recently, my PM…

It's more about the size of the task I try to do, it's quite possible to get opus4.6 to one shot a "good" 30k loc change with the right planing doc. I'm not confident I could get similar results handholding. I also tend to want to know the major decisions and details in such a change up front rather than discovering them post-hoc.

This could simply be a matter of style however.

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