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A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

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Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#491

Post by averysmallbird »

hliyan wrote: post #471
bmitch3020 wrote: post #290

Reaction 1: how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data? Reaction 2: it's open source, make the lawmakers do submit the changes. Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced? Would they outlaw downloading distributions, or even older versions of distributions? When there's no exchange of money, a law like this is seems like it would be suppression of free speech. Reaction 4: Someo…

Continually surprised by politicians wanting an OS to do what a parent should be doing. Why not just mandate that all devices with access control capabilities implement parental controls, and then mandate that all adults enable controls before handing a device to a minor? For devices that are incapable of user access control, the same rules as a knife, chainsaw or gun apply.

This isn’t so heavy handed. The purpose of age signaling is so that a parent can set in one place an age, and then federal privacy protections under COPPA and state protections under the AADC kick in.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#492

Post by jrnichols »

marssaxman wrote: post #304
palmotea wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Microstamping requirements for guns—printing a unique barcode on every bullet casing (Glock gen3 cannot be retired, thus, the auto-mode switch bug cannot be patched...) I don't know much about guns, but I assume that would be on the hammer? Couldn't you remove that "microstamping" by lightly filing down the hammer or just using it a bunch and causing some wear?

For most modern guns, it would be the firing pin, also called the "striker". Nobody manufactures microstamped guns, but if they did, the striker is a $20 part you can replace in ten minutes - or you could just spend half an hour on target practice at your local range, because 200 rounds are apparently enough to wear the etching down to illegibility.

They know this, and they know the technology just isn't there. But that's their goal - to make gun ownership as difficult and expensive as possible.

I think they've learned from the anti-gun lobbyists and are now pushing to end anonymity on the internet the same way.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#493

Post by pico303 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #408
bmitch3020 wrote: post #290

Reaction 1: how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data? Reaction 2: it's open source, make the lawmakers do submit the changes. Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced? Would they outlaw downloading distributions, or even older versions of distributions? When there's no exchange of money, a law like this is seems like it would be suppression of free speech. Reaction 4: Someo…

While there are some enforcement questions here, especially around non commercial OSes, most of your reactions are clearly based on the headline alone. It defines operating system in the law. This wouldn’t apply to embedded systems and WiFi routers and traffic lights and all those things. It applies to operating systems that work with associated app stores on general purpose computers or mobile phones or game console…

The language in the bill says operating system “or” application store. Isn't that then implying any operating system that would download applications, even if it doesn’t come from a store. But IANAL.

Seems to me this would include TVs, cars, smart devices, etc. The Colorado version of this bill excludes devices used for physical purchase, so your gas pumps and POS systems would be excluded in CO. But I didn’t see that in the CA bill.

They’re both overly broad, ill-considered, frankly terrible bills that make as much sense as putting your birthday into a brewery site or Steam. Enter your birthday and we trust you. Now do that for every single one of those 100 VMs you just deployed…

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#494

Post by iamnothere »

vineyardmike wrote: post #440
TylerE wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should follow your own advice. Their definition of "app store" is a mile wide: "(e) (1) “Covered application store” means a publicly available internet website, software application, online service, or platform that distributes and facilitates the download of applications from third-party developers to users of a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing that can access a covered applicati…

GitHub isn’t an app stores associated with an operating system though . Your personal website is most likely not in scope. You have to put all the pieces together. Apt… yes is an App Store run by an operating system organization (Debian org). That feels pretty unsurprising. Debian’s parent organization (headquartered in the US) probably needs to comply with this.

> Apt… yes is an App Store run by an operating system organization (Debian org). That feels pretty unsurprising. Debian’s parent organization (headquartered in the US) probably needs to comply with this.

And that right there is exactly the fucking problem. A zero profit collective “store” that publishes zero profit hobbyist “apps” is now going to have to invest in some kind of harebrained compliance scheme that will only grow from here.

In a couple of years is my “app” in Debian’s store going to require some goddamn TPS report and certification to tell California that everything is above board? It’s incredibly likely! By itself this law does nothing but lay the groundwork for regulation of “apps”, which by itself might be acceptable, but including FOSS distribution channels and hobby apps in the scope of this law is nothing short of evil. It’s laying the groundwork for a frontal assault on FOSS, and if you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you.

My guess is that Linux wasn’t extensively considered in the writing of this law, but when the next stage comes along and people start complaining, legislators will shrug and say “oh well, they need to comply”—and lobbyists for the big 3 proprietary software firms will back that position up. This is setting up a killshot for consumer Linux.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#495

Post by 7e »

BuddyPickett wrote: post #428
cbdevidal wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s political theater. “See? We did something. Vote for us again.”

[flagged]

It’s clear you last poked your head out of a hole in the ground 30 years ago. Check out the iPhone and the Internet while you’re up here, they will blow your mind.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#496

Post by iamnothere »

jrnichols wrote: post #492
marssaxman wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most modern guns, it would be the firing pin, also called the "striker". Nobody manufactures microstamped guns, but if they did, the striker is a $20 part you can replace in ten minutes - or you could just spend half an hour on target practice at your local range, because 200 rounds are apparently enough to wear the etching down to illegibility.

They know this, and they know the technology just isn't there. But that's their goal - to make gun ownership as difficult and expensive as possible. I think they've learned from the anti-gun lobbyists and are now pushing to end anonymity on the internet the same way.

This is exactly it, it’s death by a thousand stupid cuts by throwing everything at the wall and hoping that something sticks. They know that many of these laws won’t pass constitutional scrutiny, but by the time they make their way to the Supreme Court, the damage will be done and 10 new stupid laws will take their place. The anti gun lobby has been doing the exact same thing for years.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#497

Post by mbgerring »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #288
palmotea wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but Oh, there's more: Medicare, Social Security, the highway system. The whole food/medicine regulatory system is also a big one, and it's the reason a lot of US (and European) products like baby formula are imported into China, because they can be more trusted. My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "th…

As with anything, they are all things that could be done better by a company. Airlines are a great example of this. They have changed very little in the last 30 years (again, thanks to all the government regulation and red tape). Smartphones, TVs, (and literally anything else not in the hands of the government) has also seen rapid improvements. Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, ineffic…

No, you misunderstood me:

When I ship packages, I could choose to use a service other than USPS, but I don’t, because USPS is generally cheaper and more reliable.

I strongly prefer Medicaid to my employer-provided healthcare plans because of ease of use, and if I were allowed to I would willingly pay more money into it, either via taxes or direct premium payments, when I am making too much income to qualify.

I gladly give money to the NPS every year, even though I have a choice to pay for a private campground, or other public lands agencies.

I answered the question. You can choose to believe I didn’t all you want.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#498

Post by DrJokepu »

aldonius wrote: post #265
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting middle ground might be to prohibit anyone from serving more than two contiguous terms in the Senate or four in the House. Then if you've done your two terms in the Senate, you can run for a House seat, do three terms there and then your old Senate seat is back up for reelection. Except your old Senate seat now has a new incumbent who is only on their first term and you're running as the challenger. Me…

Interesting idea and I do agree that contiguous is OK but total is not. I think I'd suggest a more generous Senate term limit. Three terms (18 years) would allow for someone to see out a complete Presidential super-cycle, for example. The word Senate is etymologically related to "senior", it's a place where you _want_ people to be able to develop a lot of institutional experience.

>The word Senate is etymologically related to "senior", it's a place where you _want_ people to be able to develop a lot of institutional experience.

I’m not disagreeing with the rest of your comment, but I’m going to challenge the notion that this etymological connection carries meaning. The word comes from Roman Senate, and in that context in Latin “senior” really meant people with higher status rather than age. Latin is full of these weird double meanings. Compare to seigneur in French or señor in Spanish. Also, the House of Lords in the United Kingdom.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#499

Post by snvzz »

k310 wrote: post #73

Sounds to me that this is how kids learn to spin their own operating systems (a la LFS, Gentoo)and apps. This is how people bought personal computers when the mainframe priesthood banned them. It appears that very soon, young people will "de facto" need to have this level of competence in order to survive and thrive in a world of "in loco parentis" operating systems and apps. The latin reveals my age, but one thing a…

>Sounds to me that this is how kids learn to spin their own operating systems (a la LFS, Gentoo)and apps.

Nah. It follows that computers will be required to only boot age restriction compliant operating systems, as verified by digital signatures.

This is of course just MacOS and Windows.

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