zero knowledge cryptography solves this
Is there any production ready implementation out there?
The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
491–500 of 1001 posts
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#492We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…
> then give parents strong monitoring and restriction tools and empower them to protect their children. Because parents don’t abuse massive surveillance tools. Given that most abuse happens in the family and by parents maybe it’s a bad idea to give them so much power
So we should trust the governments of the world? The same governments that don't seem to be doing anything about a large group of people that visited a specific island to abuse minors?
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#493"Think of the children" is merely a political argument to get a law to be popular among normal people.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#494We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…
I know this is weird, but I'm in some ways not really sure who is on the side of freedom here. I get your position, but like. The whole idea of the promise of the internet has been destroyed by newsfeeds and mega-corps. There is almost literally documented examples of Facebook executives twirling their mustaches wondering how they can get kids more addicted. This isn't a few bands with swear words, and in fact, I thi…
> I know this is weird, but I'm in some ways not really sure who is on the side of freedom here. I get your position, but like.
No one. You’ll see a few politicians and more individuals stuck to their principles, but anyone with major clout sees the writing on the wall and is simply working to entrench their power.
> Better the nanny state than Nanny Zuck.
Indeed, what lolberts fail to understand usually is not a choice between government vs “freedom” it’s a choice between the current government and whoever will fill up the power vacuum left by the government.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#49530 years of internet were possible with relative freedom, without spying and surveillance. All of the sudden it's not possible. Governments recycle "Think of the children" mantra and they are again after terrorists and bad guys.
Mandatory age check is not going to reduce the number of criminals online. Period. We should focus on teaching parents how to educate their children properly, and teach children how to safely browse the internet and how to avoid common scams and pitfalls. I played Roblox when I was a teenager and all the time my aunt told me to be careful of who I talked to online, as they could be a pedo. Even though there wasn't a…
Helping parents would be useful rather than telling them to "just do it".
The pain in trying to set up fortnite and minecraft online as parents is unsummounted, involving creating half a dozen accounts with different companies just to get some form of control. Far easier to just give them an adult account.
The process to create a child account should be seamless and no harder than creating an adult account.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you’re young, the overwhelming and irrepressible desire to overcome society's proscriptions to satisfy your intellectual and sexual curiosity is natural and understandable. The open Internet made that easier than ever, and I enjoyed that freedom when I was younger—though I can’t say it was totally harmless. When you’re older and have children—especially preteens and teenagers—you want those barriers up, because…
The only thing this is going to achieve is to bar unverified users form the vaguely reputable and mainstream places into the small, completely unregulated spaces, sites and networks. I presume you prefer hard requirement of IDs. I'm saying this will make kids go to i2p, tor, to the obscure fora in countries not giving a f* about western laws. As a parent to the teens and teens, THIS makes me concerned. The best vpns…
> I'm saying this will make kids go to i2p, tor, to the obscure fora in countries not giving a f* about western laws.
Some will, but most won't. Similarly, most kids who are dissuaded from buying alcohol because they don't have ID are not going to break the law to get it, or switch to hard drugs as an alternative.
You can't let perfect be the enemy of better.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although there is some organic support, there is a lot of coordinated astroturfing. It’s apparent if you watch the discussions across platforms, there are obvious shared talking points that come in waves. Governments (and a few companies) really want this.
What are some links to HN comments that you (or anyone else) feel is "coordinated astroturfing"? The site guidelines ask users to send those to us at hn@ycombinator.com rather than post about it in the threads, but we always look into such cases when people send them. It almost invariably turns out to simply be that the community is divided on a topic, and this is usually demonstrable even from the public data (such…
Thanks for replying. I will make an effort to compile a list when I see it in the future. I’ve observed several cases where green names (and a few longstanding accounts) all made the same point, posted in the same time frame, with language matching what I would see on Reddit and X. It could just be organic but it was very suspicious.
I do think that HN does a better job than most at containing this (thanks for your hard work).
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#498I work at a European identity wallet system that uses a zero knowledge proof age identification system. It derives an age attribute such as "over 18" from a passport or ID, without disclosing any other information such as the date of birth. As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID, you can trust the attribute, and anonymously verify somebodies age. I think there are many pros and cons to be said about…
According to the EU Identity Wallet's documentation, the EU's planned system requires highly invasive age verification to obtain 30 single use, easily trackable tokens that expire after 3 months. It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". You have to blindly trust that the tokens will not be tracked, which is a total no-go for privacy.
These massive privacy issues have all been raised on their Github, and the team behind the wallet have been ignoring them.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#499We'll try everything, it seems, other than holding parents accountable for what their children consume. In the United States, you can get in trouble if you recklessly leave around or provide alcohol/guns/cigarettes for a minor to start using, yet somehow, the same social responsibility seems thrown out the window for parents and the web. Yes, children are clever - I was one once. If you want to actually protect child…
I know this is weird, but I'm in some ways not really sure who is on the side of freedom here. I get your position, but like. The whole idea of the promise of the internet has been destroyed by newsfeeds and mega-corps. There is almost literally documented examples of Facebook executives twirling their mustaches wondering how they can get kids more addicted. This isn't a few bands with swear words, and in fact, I thi…
> I know this is weird, but I'm in some ways not really sure who is on the side of freedom here.
That’s because “freedom” is complicated and doesn’t precisely map to the interests of any of the major actors. Its largely a war between parties seeking control for different elites for different purposes.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could your child not just call or text their friends? Or is the real expectation to not have to intervene at all about their preferred platform?
I think the idea is for the child see their friends in person... not call, text, or internet. So even if their own child has no phone at all, they have access to the internet through other children's unlimited mobile access.
When I was growing up, we loved to lend the sheltered kids from the more conservative families media they weren’t supposed to have, like the Harry Potter books.