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Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

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Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#491

Post by mschuster91 »

mmooss wrote: post #446
mschuster91 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at the changes from the conservative/MAGA movement, #metoo, and the George Floyd protests. Which changes? metoo certainly didn't change much, the George Floyd protests also led to nothing, just look at how ICE has been executing US citizens in the last months. In 2025 alone, before Renee Good and Alex Pretti, ICE murdered 32 people with zero accountability [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-intera…

Regarding conservatives/MAGA, if you're saying the US hasn't changed dramatically since 2016 then I don't know what to say to you. And I think you're misremembering the world before #metoo and George Floyd. Regarding the latter, police used to widely behave like ICE; now it's anathema - at least in cities. None of them help ICE afaik. The conservatives like to preach hopelessness to their enemies - for obvious reason…

> Regarding conservatives/MAGA, if you're saying the US hasn't changed dramatically since 2016 then I don't know what to say to you.

That is precisely why I didn't mention these.

> Regarding the latter, police used to widely behave like ICE; now it's anathema - at least in cities. None of them help ICE afaik.

They still kill people en masse [1], still overwhelmingly non-White people, and the number only increased over the years. It's good that police and National Guards (at least in Minneapolis) are on the side of the people, but as a system, police in the US is still loving to kill people.

And the GOP had DC tear apart the last visual reminder, the Black Lives Matter road mural [2] under extortionist threats.

> The wierd part is, their enemies have picked up that argument and make it themselves. They simply and bizarrely have disarmed themselves, but they had and have the power the entire time.

Similar to the Epstein Files, what should have happened in response to metoo and George Floyd/BLM was action that went beyond symbolism. Actual prosecution and judgement of people found to be in violation of the law and making sure that the conditions leading to these events will not repeat. But that was not done - movie sets got intimacy coordinators, Washington DC the BLM mural... while Weinstein got at least one conviction overturned on technicialities and Chauvin got moved to a low security prison [3].

Of course particularly the young generations are angry. Absolutely vile and horrible things can happen without any impactful action afterwards. And that's before we even go into the mess that is the Epstein Files, with Maxwell hoping for a pardon of all things after being moved to a minimum security facility already [4]. She does not deserve even one single day in freedom in her life again. Or before we touch the mess that is Jan 6th 2021, with Trump handing out pardons like others hand out candy [5]. Attempt a fucking putsch and get off scot free? WTF is this shit? In many other countries, putschists get hanged in the streets, as a warning sign to others.

To sum it up: there have been no meaningful results and changes from either of these events. And that is why there are so many voices on the progressive left calling for the removal of, amongst others, Chuck Schumer and other high-ranking Democrats in favor of people like Mamdani on one side, and mob justice aka the plumber's brother on the other side. Some still have faith in democracy itself but just demand better representatives and leaders, but others deem executing people like insurance CEOs the only way forward. And personally? I don't condone acts of violence like this, but I understand where they are coming from - a completely shattered trust in the ability of the government to hold bad actors accountable and improve the lives of the wide masses.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/08/nx-s1-5321872/dc-black-lives-...

[3] https://www.npr.org/2024/08/21/g-s1-18339/ex-officer-convict...

[4] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czd049y2qymo

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon_of_January_6_United_Sta...

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#492

Post by cjsplat »

tokyobreakfast wrote: post #277
kakacik wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a nice outrage wave, but I have very hard time believing this will be a major topic in 2 weeks. People simply don't give a fuck en masse. Accept that many folks are built differently than you and me and stuff like actual freedom you may be willing to lay your life for may be meaningless fart for others, especially when its not hurting them now . For example US folks voted current admin willingly second time and e…

The Epstein stuff is a distraction. The previous admin had 4 years to do literally anything about it and they did nothing.

What should they have done?

They put Ghislaine Maxwell in jail then had to wait until her appeal about Epstein's immunity deal made it to the Supreme Court.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#493

Post by JCattheATM »

ndr42 wrote: post #430
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. Video Rental Protection Act (1988) >we don't seem to want to Congress protects only itself and its actual constituents — wealthy corporate persons. ---- Citizens United (2012) and the surveillances themselves make this monitoring self-capturing: the only way to prevent it is to convince most people to not install, but most people want the installed benefits. Even getting your neighbors to re-position their Ring ca…

> Even getting your neighbors to re-position their Ring cameras (which they have every right to install) can become very difficult. In Germany it's prohibited by law to point your private surveillance camera to public spaces like the boardwalk, no recording of these areas is allowed. I think thats the way it should be. Unfortunately in some areas (e.g. train stations) it is allowed.

You'd prefer train stations don't have CCTV? What about when an attack happens?

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#494

Post by cindyllm »

Aurornis wrote: post #470
tokyobreakfast wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has known Google reads your email since day one. In the early days they would spin it as a good thing: "that's why the spam filtering is great!" Why is everyone suddenly outraged Ring has access to your footage? These cloud-connected cameras...hosted on someone else's servers. It's literally how they work. "But I didn't think they would use the video in a way I didn't personally approve after giving it to th…

> Everyone has known Google reads your email since day one. These constructions feel too simplistic to capture anything useful. My credit card company can see my transactions. My medical provider can read my medical records. People who hire house cleaners let people see inside their house. It's commonly accepted that when you engage with a company for business purposes, they can see things involved in your business w…

[dead]

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#495

Post by JCattheATM »

Gud wrote: post #242
notepad0x90 wrote: post #234

I don't think people grasp the gravity of the situation. I see everyone talking about how to stop using products. I even thought about legislation that could help. But that's just it, none of that is possible. You can't even employ a "torches and pitchforks" approach. For any of this to be possible, people would have to coordinate. The means by which people communicate and coordinate are under the influence and contr…

No, the only way to win this war is to reform your system of governance, decentralisation and democratisation. Power to the people.

The people are part of the problem. They're largely fine with all this.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#496

Post by protocolture »

Aurornis wrote: post #470
tokyobreakfast wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has known Google reads your email since day one. In the early days they would spin it as a good thing: "that's why the spam filtering is great!" Why is everyone suddenly outraged Ring has access to your footage? These cloud-connected cameras...hosted on someone else's servers. It's literally how they work. "But I didn't think they would use the video in a way I didn't personally approve after giving it to th…

> Everyone has known Google reads your email since day one. These constructions feel too simplistic to capture anything useful. My credit card company can see my transactions. My medical provider can read my medical records. People who hire house cleaners let people see inside their house. It's commonly accepted that when you engage with a company for business purposes, they can see things involved in your business w…

>People don't care if a Google bot "reads" their e-mail for spam filtering.

There was that google engineer who was reading kids emails to groom them.

If someone can abuse something, you should expect it will be abused and you might not expect the avenue of abuse.

I get what you are trying to say, that its outcomes that are important. But you cant just hand everything over and trust.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#497

Post by ProllyInfamous »

JCattheATM wrote: post #493
ndr42 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even getting your neighbors to re-position their Ring cameras (which they have every right to install) can become very difficult. In Germany it's prohibited by law to point your private surveillance camera to public spaces like the boardwalk, no recording of these areas is allowed. I think thats the way it should be. Unfortunately in some areas (e.g. train stations) it is allowed.

You'd prefer train stations don't have CCTV? What about when an attack happens?

I'd argue they should be better positioned, to minimize off-railroad property intrusion.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#498

Post by otterley »

keernan wrote: post #465
otterley wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an attorney I’d like to understand why you think there is a “clear” Constitutional violation going on here. What activity, specifically, are you referring to, and what precedent supports your claim?

As a trial attorney for more than 40 years, I'd say these are examples of egregious illegal surveillance of American citizens by the current government: 1. A retired US citizen emailed a DHS attorney urging mercy for an asylum seeker he had read about. Five hours later he received an email from Google advising him the federal government had served Google with a subpoena demanding information about him. Then they foll…

Egregious, yes. Concerning, yes. Illegal, I’m not so sure. As a fellow attorney, why do you think they are illegal?[1] Maybe they should be, but our jurisprudence since the 1960s (the “put down the dirty hippies” age) seems to treat the the 4th Amendment not as an expansive right to be left alone but as a narrow one that treats only one’s home as a privacy zone.

I found crim pro to be a very distressing and depressing course.

Also, that last link to The NY Times article is broken.

[1] To suggest that the Government doesn’t know what’s legal and what isn’t stretches credulity. They know; and they’re going to ride as close to that line as possible when motivated by their bosses.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#499

Post by ProllyInfamous »

like_any_other wrote: post #413
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. Video Rental Protection Act (1988) >we don't seem to want to Congress protects only itself and its actual constituents — wealthy corporate persons. ---- Citizens United (2012) and the surveillances themselves make this monitoring self-capturing: the only way to prevent it is to convince most people to not install, but most people want the installed benefits. Even getting your neighbors to re-position their Ring ca…

How would term limits help? Without term limits, congressmen can be judged by their voting history. With them, we get always new batches of congressmen, while lobbyists stay the same and consolidate their power. It's so easy to get rid of a congressman you don't like with term limits. But why do you think, on average, his replacement would be better? The replacement would only be more unknown.

I think long-term ("establishment") politicians are more-inclined to have been bought-out; new blood is more likely to make new alignments, churning up the dirty space that is politics.

Lesser of two evils sort of thought process...

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#500

Post by epolanski »

I don't want to say I give up, but after seeing how powerful modern facial recognition softwares are, mostly by Israelis, and what I mean is: if you're walking randomly in an Uzbekistan's mall with a moustache and sunglasses this information is instantly known by lots of actors with 99.9%+ accuracy, I kinda give up.

1984 is here and we are allowing it bit by bit by normalizing at every small step stuff that would've been madness ten years before.

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